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Permlink Replies: 17 - Pages: 2 [ 1 2 | Next ] - Last Post: Oct 21, 2017 10:54 AM Last Post By: tommy london
Kingsley Jesuor...

Posts: 6
Registered: 09/30/17
Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 7:54 AM
 
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Many readers complain about their inability to post book reviews about my book until they make additional (totally unrelated) purchases of upwards of $50.00! Why deny readers an opportunity to post a review about a book item that they have verifiably purchased regardless of the price?
Edmund Fen

Posts: 16
Registered: 10/05/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 8:49 AM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
Many readers complain about their inability to post book reviews about my book until they make additional (totally unrelated) purchases of upwards of $50.00! Why deny readers an opportunity to post a review about a book item that they have verifiably purchased regardless of the price?

Basically, the requirements were changed to discourage people from posting the kinds of biased reviews you want your friends to post. You should try marketing your book to real people. They tend to post reviews which might be of value to other customers.
Kingsley Jesuor...

Posts: 6
Registered: 09/30/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 11:31 AM   in response to: Edmund Fen in response to: Edmund Fen
 
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I am not sure why you are airing such a scathing view about me and the people you call my "friends" instead of addressing my question. I suggest that you reread my original post and address it. I am talking about people who have made verifiable purchases but are unable to make reviews without buying additional unrelated items. Please address the issues raised!
Emily Veinglory

Posts: 3,374
Registered: 04/25/13
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 11:43 AM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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And I am not sure why you seem upset that someone quoted your question and answered it.

What you describe is how it is. It will not be changing. People who are customers of Amazon, and thus your customers via Amazon, will already know how it works.
Kingsley Jesuor...

Posts: 6
Registered: 09/30/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 11:58 AM   in response to: Emily Veinglory in response to: Emily Veinglory
 
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If this is how you answer legitimate questions from authors here, it is sad! All I asked was the rationale for the rule that denies purchasers the right to post a review of the book they have purchased. Rather than provide same, you are collaborating to attack the person asking simple questions, digging in and bragging about the rule being here to stay. Are you guys speaking on behalf of KindleAmazon or on behalf of yourselves?
Donna St Felix

Posts: 5,426
Registered: 09/18/13
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 12:07 PM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
If this is how you answer legitimate questions from authors here, it is sad! All I asked was the rationale for the rule that denies purchasers the right to post a review of the book they have purchased. Rather than provide same, you are collaborating to attack the person asking simple questions, digging in and bragging about the rule being here to stay. Are you guys speaking on behalf of KindleAmazon or on behalf of yourselves?

Amazon has it rules. There is nothing you or we authors can do about it.
As to 'why', that has previously been explained to you.
Kingsley Jesuor...

Posts: 6
Registered: 09/30/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 12:18 PM   in response to: Donna St Felix in response to: Donna St Felix
 
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What sense has been offered from previous posts with respect to the question I posed? I am not impressed by any ot these, Neither am I fooled. I know about "rules". Nothing that is done without a basis that can withstand reasonable scrutiny will stand the test of time. Thanks.
Mrs Julia Evans

Posts: 623
Registered: 05/22/16
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 1:14 PM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
Many readers complain about their inability to post book reviews about my book

Kingsley,

You seem to be unhappy at the tone of the answers you've received, and apparently don't understand why the community isn't being it's usual welcoming, friendly self. Although, you probably wouldn't know what was normal for the community, seeing as you've only joined us this week.

I'm afraid the answer to why you've been met with such a negative response is in your own original post, and so there's no confusion, I've quoted the relevant part here.

'Many readers' have complained to you, have they? Personally, to you? Strangers? Really?

You see that's the part that annoys people. It's where you claim that a whole raft of complete strangers have contacted you personally (and no other author before you, it seems) to make this valid and important point, that they wish they could leave a review about your book. They're not friends or family, of course. Perish the thought!

Do you think that the gentlefolk here at the community were born yesterday? Don't you think that we haven't heard this exact same question ten thousand times before, each time from a member who joined the forum less than a week before?

Did you think that the people here who've read your post wouldn't immediately go onto the Amazon.ca page and find the reviews you've already been given, by people who have absolutely nothing to do with you, but who have suspiciously Nigerian sounding names? Did you think we didn't spot that your none of your reviewers have ever posted a review of another product on Amazon? Every one a review virgin? What a coincidence!

What gives it away more than anything, is that if you read posts in the community regularly, you'd know that the average number of reviews you should expect from strangers varies from 1:500 to 1:1000. And you've sold what? Ten books, judging by your ranking? Twelve?

But you wouldn't know that, would you, because you only joined this week.

We may not all be lawyers, Mr Jesuorobo, although no doubt a few of us are. But we're not fools either.

If you're not prepared to show the community the respect it deserves, you can expect to receive the response you deserve. Ward style!

Good luck keeping those reviews when the Zon bots go snooping! J
Emily Veinglory

Posts: 3,374
Registered: 04/25/13
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 1:26 PM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Let me try and repeat our points in an extremely clear way.

Amazon only cares about people who spontaneously choose to come here and buy stuff because they think Amazon is a cool online shop. People of this type quickly spend $50 and get reviewing rights. But even if they don't have reviewing rights they probably don't care--because the main reason they come here is to buy stuff, not to review stuff.

Amazon does not care about people who come here with the predetermined reasons of supporting a specific product or posting a review for a specific product. If these people have no general interest in buying any other stuff from Amazon, Amazon pretty much doesn't want to waste any time on them. They deliberately exclude these people from the review section because many of the are biassed or even paid reviewers.

This is Amazon's deliberate choice to encourage genuine repeat customer to review, and discourage reviewers with any other kind of motivation.

This situation is not going to change any time soon so whether we like it or not, we are used to it by now.
Kingsley Jesuor...

Posts: 6
Registered: 09/30/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 2:29 PM   in response to: Mrs Julia Evans in response to: Mrs Julia Evans
 
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What is awkward and objectionable is your concerted belligerence over a question that none of you has been able to validly address. Rather than throw unjustified attacks at me in the name of being in demand of "respect", it would do you and your cohort well in the court of public opinion to be disciplined disciples of the author's community which you are purporting to defend. Admittedly, I am knew here.

You engage in misrepresentation of my sales data in an attempt to further pull wool over the eyes of people. The issue of who my readers are or their places of origin is not relevant here; and I will not dignify a descent into the gutter in desperation to silence common sense. I have recorded over a hundred downloads of my work within a few days of the book's release. That too is not really relevant.

If the claim is true that you the contributors here are members of the authors' community, the least I would expect is an attempt to silence legitimate questions from fellow authors!

If you are really keen on being reasonably analytical, why conveniently leave out the key qualifier in my question, namely, that people with verifiable proof of purchase are unable to leave reviews without having to purchase more items? Which part of that question hurts you and your ilk? When I said "people", am I not talking about people who actually, verifiably, bought my book?

I really need to understand your motive for throwing darts that can never silence me!!
beachgardener

Posts: 370
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 3:07 PM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
What is awkward and objectionable is your concerted belligerence over a question that none of you has been able to validly address. Rather than throw unjustified attacks at me in the name of being in demand of "respect", it would do you and your cohort well in the court of public opinion to be disciplined disciples of the author's community which you are purporting to defend. Admittedly, I am knew here.

You engage in misrepresentation of my sales data in an attempt to further pull wool over the eyes of people. The issue of who my readers are or their places of origin is not relevant here; and I will not dignify a descent into the gutter in desperation to silence common sense. I have recorded over a hundred downloads of my work within a few days of the book's release. That too is not really relevant.

If the claim is true that you the contributors here are members of the authors' community, the least I would expect is an attempt to silence legitimate questions from fellow authors!

If you are really keen on being reasonably analytical, why conveniently leave out the key qualifier in my question, namely, that people with verifiable proof of purchase are unable to leave reviews without having to purchase more items? Which part of that question hurts you and your ilk? When I said "people", am I not talking about people who actually, verifiably, bought my book?

I really need to understand your motive for throwing darts that can never silence me!!


When you own the blackboard, then you can say who gets to write on it. Amazon gets to make the rules. That said, it is a rule many of us welcomed after receiving reviews from non purchasers of books or anything else that were often rants and nasty. At least the reviewer has to have some money in the game now. If you did a search you would find a lot of discussion that took place when the change was put in place.

When you post on a forum - any forum - I would think you would expect people who take the time to answer your question to be honest with you and share their experience. We are not here to rubberstamp your angst. We are a generally polite, kind, even humorous group, we are opinionated and for the most part respect each others right to have - and keep - one's opinion. Scolding and demanding we agree with you is probably not going to win friends or influence Amazon to do it your way.

No one is motivated to silence you, this is a place to vent if you need to. You might keep in mind that is not required that we listen if you do not respect our right to take a different view of the subject. B
Mrs Julia Evans

Posts: 623
Registered: 05/22/16
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 3:08 PM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Sir, it has nothing to do with belligerence and everything to do with the fact that the answer is in front of your eyes, and you refuse to see it.

The fact that you made a purchase and have a 'verified sale' has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are qualified to leave a review. Amazon allow reviews even when you haven't bought the product.

Entitlement is determined by whether or not you have a relationship of any sort with the author in question. That is the criteria Amazon uses for determining whether you are entitled to leave a review.

The reason for the $50 minimum, is to stop family members, friends and acquaintances, setting up multiple accounts, leaving favourable reviews, and, in effect, duping poor unsuspecting readers into buying a load of rubbish that only a mother could love.

And whether or not you admit it is irrelevant. Your reviews appear highly suspicious, and if spotted by A*zon's bots, you could not only find your reviews removed, but your book as well, as they kick you out of kdp altogether.

That is not me trying to be nasty. It's in the TOC. As a lawyer, I would have expected you to have read it before you set about asking the question.

You can listen to what we're trying to tell you, or you can continue to sit on your high horse and stare down at the peasants. But you can't say you weren't warned.

And why would we claim that the contributors here are members of the authors community? We'd hardly be here if we weren't! Which means we can look at rankings and work out sales figures from them, and we also know which genres are hot and selling, and which ones aren't.

New authors come here every day, and, by and large, the community offers them good advice and moral support.

But when we see the same, unoriginal questions, badged as innocent enquiries, when they're anything but, well, I'm sorry, but they get exactly what you've received today.

It's commonly known as short shrift.

Good day to you. J
Edmund Fen

Posts: 16
Registered: 10/05/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 3:21 PM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
What is awkward and objectionable is your concerted belligerence over a question that none of you has been able to validly address. Rather than throw unjustified attacks at me in the name of being in demand of "respect", it would do you and your cohort well in the court of public opinion to be disciplined disciples of the author's community which you are purporting to defend. Admittedly, I am knew here.
Everyone is "knew" at one time or another, but that's no excuse for boorishness. No one is attacking you. You asked a question, did not like the answer and threw a hissy fit. Not exactly a unique or infrequent occurrence around here.

You engage in misrepresentation of my sales data in an attempt to further pull wool over the eyes of people. The issue of who my readers are or their places of origin is not relevant here; and I will not dignify a descent into the gutter in desperation to silence common sense. I have recorded over a hundred downloads of my work within a few days of the book's release. That too is not really relevant.
Who your readers are is extremely relevant. If they're close enough to contact you, chances are their reviews will not be allowed, no matter how much socks and underwear they buy. As mentioned earlier, you need to market to real customers, not friends, family or acquaintances. Hundreds of downloads for a poetry book? Maybe free, but not at $10 a toss.

If the claim is true that you the contributors here are members of the authors' community, the least I would expect is an attempt to silence legitimate questions from fellow authors!
No one is trying to silence you, but no matter how many times you ask the same question, the answer will be the same. Amazon upped the requirements because there were too many people establishing accounts just because they wanted to (or were asked to) post a review on some friend's book they downloaded when it was free. Did the change eliminate all the fake reviews? No, of course not. When a rule changes, people immediately try to figure out a way around it. But, as you discovered, it does help.

If you are really keen on being reasonably analytical, why conveniently leave out the key qualifier in my question, namely, that people with verifiable proof of purchase are unable to leave reviews without having to purchase more items? Which part of that question hurts you and your ilk? When I said "people", am I not talking about people who actually, verifiably, bought my book?

" Verifiable proof of purchase" is meaningless. A book need not be bought through Amazon, or at all, for a review to be posted. But just as Amazon wants real reviews, they want real customers to post them. Real customers buy stuff, not just download a single book.

I really need to understand your motive for throwing darts that can never silence me!!

No darts. No silence. Just answers you don't like...life is full of those.
Kingsley Jesuor...

Posts: 6
Registered: 09/30/17
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 5, 2017 4:05 PM   in response to: Edmund Fen in response to: Edmund Fen
 
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If there is one thing I know, it is the fact that opinions are sacred and ought to be aired as long as it is not dangerously harmful to the larger interests of the society. I asked a question and some of you ganged up in an very distasteful and belligerent attempt to compel me to "accept" your position. You demeaned me and the people, many of whom were joining amazon for the first time, who wanted to understand the rationale for the rule. Then someone went all the way to assail and misrepresent my sales record. I do not have any "free" download of my book. You either purchase it outright or pay subscription through Kindle Unlimited to get it.

The question I have is this really an attempt to defend the "review" process?

If you had to defend the process, must you descend so low as to throw accusations of bias and other unwarranted attacks against a fellow author? Who said you were not free to air your views? How relevant are your personal - even nationality - attacks to the question I posted? Then there is reference to previous discussions on the issue! Was I supposed to engage in a historical excursion of the forum history before raising any issue as a new author?

If we have to really analyze things, are there parameters for determining the qualifications of the reviewers along the lines of their book review history? Is it a requirement that they need to have purchased and reviewed other books before they are able to leave comments? I don't know the answers to many of these things.

If we are all authors trying to protect the integrity of the rating or review process, I would think that verified purchase of the book in question ought to be the only valid parameter to determine who is allowed to write a review. What has someone's review of another book or purchase of other items got to do with his or her ability to assess my own work or your own work?

I really need to understand the motive behind these concerted personal attacks folks!!
Donna St Felix

Posts: 5,426
Registered: 09/18/13
Re: Readers' review issues
Posted: Oct 6, 2017 1:41 AM   in response to: Kingsley Jesuor... in response to: Kingsley Jesuor...
 
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Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
If there is one thing I know, it is the fact that opinions are sacred and ought to be aired as long as it is not dangerously harmful to the larger interests of the society. I asked a question and some of you ganged up in an very distasteful and belligerent attempt to compel me to "accept" your position. You demeaned me and the people, many of whom were joining amazon for the first time, who wanted to understand the rationale for the rule. Then someone went all the way to assail and misrepresent my sales record. I do not have any "free" download of my book. You either purchase it outright or pay subscription through Kindle Unlimited to get it.

The question I have is this really an attempt to defend the "review" process?

If you had to defend the process, must you descend so low as to throw accusations of bias and other unwarranted attacks against a fellow author? Who said you were not free to air your views? How relevant are your personal - even nationality - attacks to the question I posted? Then there is reference to previous discussions on the issue! Was I supposed to engage in a historical excursion of the forum history before raising any issue as a new author?

If we have to really analyze things, are there parameters for determining the qualifications of the reviewers along the lines of their book review history? Is it a requirement that they need to have purchased and reviewed other books before they are able to leave comments? I don't know the answers to many of these things.

If we are all authors trying to protect the integrity of the rating or review process, I would think that verified purchase of the book in question ought to be the only valid parameter to determine who is allowed to write a review. What has someone's review of another book or purchase of other items got to do with his or her ability to assess my own work or your own work?

I really need to understand the motive behind these concerted personal attacks folks!!
Kingsley Jesuorobo wrote:
If there is one thing I know, it is the fact that opinions are sacred and ought to be aired as long as it is not dangerously harmful to the larger interests of the society. I asked a question and some of you ganged up in an very distasteful and belligerent attempt to compel me to "accept" your position. You demeaned me and the people, many of whom were joining amazon for the first time, who wanted to understand the rationale for the rule. Then someone went all the way to assail and misrepresent my sales record. I do not have any "free" download of my book. You either purchase it outright or pay subscription through Kindle Unlimited to get it.

The question I have is this really an attempt to defend the "review" process?

If you had to defend the process, must you descend so low as to throw accusations of bias and other unwarranted attacks against a fellow author? Who said you were not free to air your views? How relevant are your personal - even nationality - attacks to the question I posted? Then there is reference to previous discussions on the issue! Was I supposed to engage in a historical excursion of the forum history before raising any issue as a new author?

If we have to really analyze things, are there parameters for determining the qualifications of the reviewers along the lines of their book review history? Is it a requirement that they need to have purchased and reviewed other books before they are able to leave comments? I don't know the answers to many of these things.

If we are all authors trying to protect the integrity of the rating or review process, I would think that verified purchase of the book in question ought to be the only valid parameter to determine who is allowed to write a review. What has someone's review of another book or purchase of other items got to do with his or her ability to assess my own work or your own work?

I really need to understand the motive behind these concerted personal attacks folks!!


To add to your unhappiness and confusion, if Amazon finds a review left by someone you know (such as a Facebook friend), they will remove it. There are many threads across these forums explaining it all that you can find using the search feature. ... I am moving on.
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