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Thread: Is self publishing a suicide?


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Permlink Replies: 44 - Pages: 3 [ Previous | 1 2 3 ] - Last Post: Nov 28, 2017 1:53 AM Last Post By: pierina
Adam Harkus

Posts: 87
Registered: 01/19/17
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 12:22 AM   in response to: Donna St Felix in response to: Donna St Felix
 
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No it's doesn't. And it's not that simple.

In that context it's "Get off the fence". Not "Get off of the Fence".

"Off of" is poor English. Use it in your books if you want but anyone with an education would see that as a grammatical error.

I can't believe in 2017, on a book forum, so-called 'writers' don't have this basic grasp of the English language.

We gifted you your language. Learn to use it correctly. People can tell.
Adam Harkus

Posts: 87
Registered: 01/19/17
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 12:30 AM   in response to: tommy london in response to: tommy london
 
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When a book is written in English... It's about the quality of the English and the content.

Your country of origin is irrelevant.

Americans giving lectures about it is hilarious :)
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 5:38 AM   in response to: Adam Harkus in response to: Adam Harkus
 
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Adam Harkus wrote:
No it's doesn't. And it's not that simple.

In that context it's "Get off the fence". Not "Get off of the Fence".

"Off of" is poor English. Use it in your books if you want but anyone with an education would see that as a grammatical error.

I can't believe in 2017, on a book forum, so-called 'writers' don't have this basic grasp of the English language.

We gifted you your language. Learn to use it correctly. People can tell.


Gawd, you've gone from prat to wanker in one effortless leap, chum.

Ward Rogers
Rule Britannia!
Adam Harkus

Posts: 87
Registered: 01/19/17
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 5:51 AM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
 
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Get off (of) the fence why don't you!
grandmaster

Posts: 838
Registered: 11/29/16
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 6:09 AM   in response to: Adam Harkus in response to: Adam Harkus
 
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Adam Harkus wrote:
Americans frequently use the phrase "Off of".......

They can't lecture anyone on the English Language, they don't even have their own language.

Being English, I can pass judgement.

Edited by: Adam Harkus on Mar 1, 2017 6:20 AM


Now I know you're full of crap. You have no more ownership of the language than anyone else. You Brits have your own quirks and oddities, but most Americans just laugh and roll with it. Like it or not, America is the biggest ebook market. If one wants to sell to that market, the book has to be of some reasonable standard. If you've seen posts here from other non-native speakers, it should be evident that their level of writing is not going to cut it. Most can't even write comprehensible posts here. Since they claim to be writers, shouldn't we expect the same standards as you expect of Americans? No? Do they get a pass? A pat on the back for participating? Pity sales?

Tsk. Tsk.

I took a look at your book, and while it has sold some copies, it's not doing all that well, so you have no room to dismiss people here based on your opinion of our sales. Current rank is #881,563 Paid in Kindle Store, which seems to show a couple of copies sold. That's actually probably what most people told you to expect with the subject matter. I'm pretty sure only James told you it wouldn't sell at all.
beachgardener

Posts: 420
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 7:33 AM   in response to: grandmaster in response to: grandmaster
 
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Oh please children, everyone back to their desks. Write in your voice, quit worrying about the spelling, or pronounciation of the other writers. English is a living language, always evolving and flexible enough to encompass us all. I feel sure the readers will ultimately decide what they like and all the posturing and arguments are not going to do anything but rob you of creative time.
Beachgardener
Adam Harkus

Posts: 87
Registered: 01/19/17
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 8:29 AM   in response to: grandmaster in response to: grandmaster
 
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It's doing a little better on amazon.co.uk though......
Adam Harkus

Posts: 87
Registered: 01/19/17
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 2, 2017 8:31 AM   in response to: grandmaster in response to: grandmaster
 
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grandmaster wrote:
Adam Harkus wrote:
When a book is written in English... It's about the quality of the English and the content.

Which is what we're trying to impart here, though you seem to have missed it, sitting up on that high horse.

Your country of origin is irrelevant.

Yeah. Nobody here cares where people are from. We try to pass along advice and give help from our own experiences of what works or doesn't. Except some people seem to think that because they're from some other country, they shouldn't be held to any standards, which you either agree with or don't, depending on your mood, it seems.

Americans giving lectures about it is hilarious :)

Well, we don't look gift horses in the mouth, it seems. Americans don't owe you anything. We fought a war to get away from snots like you. We evolved the language to suit us, which isn't any of your concern. What hilarious is people from the UK acting like they're perfect. In case you hadn't realized it, many people from India post here about their books. Since they speak British English, how come they aren't perfect?


A snot? ouch!
Paul Steward

Posts: 2
Registered: 03/08/17
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 8, 2017 1:03 PM   in response to: Adam Harkus in response to: Adam Harkus
 
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I feel like it's one of those things where a professional has the potential to most likely do it better, but you can still attempt it yourself.
grandmaster

Posts: 838
Registered: 11/29/16
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 12, 2017 8:16 AM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
 
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beachgardener wrote:
Oh please children, everyone back to their desks. Write in your voice, quit worrying about the spelling, or pronounciation of the other writers. English is a living language, always evolving and flexible enough to encompass us all. I feel sure the readers will ultimately decide what they like and all the posturing and arguments are not going to do anything but rob you of creative time.
Beachgardener

Personally, if someone wants to publish and not care about their product, so be it. Goodness knows, there are thousands doing it every day. And many of them are on forums crying because they aren't selling and can't see why. When they're told the book doesn't meet standards that we've learned are expected by readers, we're jumped on because we're mean, we're arrogant, we're jealous, we want people to fail, or whatever new reason someone comes up with.

English may be an evolving language, but there are still accepted norms for how it's written. It doesn't matter in the end if one chooses US or UK English. At their base, they are the same. Insulting Americans is pointless, considering the US is the largest market, and the one most people want to reach if they expect to sell well.

Readers expect a level of quality so they can understand what the writer is trying to convey. It doesn't have to be perfect, pass your English test and make your teacher faint from joy language. But if people who like to jump on those of us who advise writing better are honest, they can see that much of what is presented here is not only barely comprehensible, it will have such a small audience that it will likely never sell more than an odd copy or two.

If one expects to sell a product, one would be advised to learn what others are selling, and either compete on quality and price, or expect to not do well, and accept that. No one is owed sales. That seems to be something that slips through all the hype about publishing without the gatekeeper. Remember, the true gatekeeper is still there: the reader. A far tougher master than many people know. Readers have the power to make or break an author. Disappoint them, and you may never get another chance to succeed.

This is a tough business. We've all had to learn and grow with it. Most of us are willing to help others. But that doesn't mean those others don't have to do the work, polish their craft and learn what and how to sell. There's a big market out there, but the competition is stiff and only getting more so. What worked even six months ago is likely to have gone into the land of long ago. Keep up, compete, adapt. Or don't. Entirely up to each of us.
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Mar 12, 2017 9:15 AM   in response to: grandmaster in response to: grandmaster
 
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British English is much richer than American English, but only because we've had much longer to muck around with it. Two peoples separated by a common language, but I like and use both, depending on what I'm writing. As to the Indian writers, just one of life's little mysteries, I guess.

You shouldn't judge us harshly because of one sparky little pillock. After all, I don't judge Americans by the James Standard. ;-)
C.M. Hayden

Posts: 6
Registered: 06/28/16
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Nov 26, 2017 8:16 AM   in response to: Adam Harkus in response to: Adam Harkus
 
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You don't know what you're talking about Adam. The only sin "off of" really commits is that it could be usually shortened to "off."

The phrase, however, has been used for hundreds of years by thousands of English and American authors. Not to mention it's colloquially common in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

1450, from a medical text (English): “Take a sponfull of the licour … off of the fyir and sette it in good place tyl that it be ny colde.”

1667, from Andrew Marvell (English): “The Lords and we cannot yet get off of the difficultyes risen betwixt us.”

1712, from Richard Steele (Irish), writing in the Spectator: “I could not keep my Eyes off of her.”

1592, from William Shakespeare (English), in Henry VI: "A fall off of a tree."

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.) says: “The compound preposition off of is generally regarded as informal and is best avoided in formal speech and writing: He stepped off (not off of) the platform.”

To sum it all up: "off of" is clumsy and should be avoided. However, it's been common in the English-speaking world for a long time. Don't act like it's something uniquely American. It isn't.
vicki graybosch

Posts: 305
Registered: 10/01/12
Re: Your Views Are Highly Appreciated
Posted: Nov 26, 2017 8:25 AM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
 
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refreshing
pierina

Posts: 2
Registered: 09/29/14
Il Clandestino. Lolly Berto. Amazon.
Posted: Nov 26, 2017 11:08 AM   in response to: Adam Harkus in response to: Adam Harkus
 
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Per quanto riguarda questo argomento, io lo trovo molto interessante, e sono d'accordo che il prodotto che presentiamo deve essere buono e che dovremmo impegnarci ogni giorno di più per migliorare la nostra scrittura e creatività. Amazon per me è molto positivo e mi da grande visibilità e potenzialità di vendere i miei libri.
Un saluto a tutti. Lolly Berto.
pierina

Posts: 2
Registered: 09/29/14
Il Clandestino. Lolly Berto. Amazon.
Posted: Nov 26, 2017 11:09 AM   in response to: Adam Harkus in response to: Adam Harkus
 
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Per quanto riguarda questo argomento, io lo trovo molto interessante, e sono d'accordo che il prodotto che presentiamo deve essere buono e che dovremmo impegnarci ogni giorno di più per migliorare la nostra scrittura e creatività. Amazon per me è molto positivo e mi da grande visibilità e potenzialità di vendere i miei libri.
Un saluto a tutti. Lolly Berto.
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