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Thread: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!


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Permlink Replies: 23 - Pages: 2 [ 1 2 | Next ] - Last Post: Mar 31, 2012 2:19 AM Last Post By: notjohn
jtbigtoad

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DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 12:29 PM
 
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I JUST RAN A TEST!

The kindle conversion no longer auto indents word files that are presented in block text!

this is probably a good thing as a whole, but I think that some author/pblishers may have gotten used to it by accident.

If someone has been using tabs or spaces for indentation and they were ignored by the kindle conversion, but then the conversion substituted the auto indent instead, the net result would be for indentatios that appear to have been created by tabs or spaces!

I do not recall seeing a notice of the change

has any one else noticed this???

JT

;)
notjohn

Posts: 15,241
Registered: 01/06/10
Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 12:45 PM   in response to: jtbigtoad in response to: jtbigtoad
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Since I don't usually upload Word docs, I'm not sure what you mean by "block text." But as it happens I just now uploaded a Word doc just as a placeholder (because the other day I had trouble saving a page if not every step were completed) and by golly there are no paragraph indents whatever. They're all flush left.

Since I write in WordStar, an old dos word processing program, I make all my indents with the tab key. They carry over okay when opened in Word, but it's certainly true that I can't apply a indent style to the document, or I'll get a double indent.

Does this have any similarity to what you've just noticed?
jtbigtoad

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 12:58 PM   in response to: notjohn in response to: notjohn
 
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always before Word tabs and spaces used for indents would be ignored

did word star tabs work?

the old bromide was to not use spaces or tabs to generate indents

but always before the auto indentr would push the first line indent to 0.5"

which played havoc with full page images!

JT

;)
jtbigtoad

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 1:05 PM   in response to: jtbigtoad in response to: jtbigtoad
 
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Ok now I did a test with tabs for indents

AND THEY WORKED!

What is next???

Pigs flying????

JT

;)
notjohn

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 4:05 PM   in response to: jtbigtoad in response to: jtbigtoad
 
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**did word star tabs work?**

No. Each paragraph begins flush left.
jtbigtoad

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 5:30 PM   in response to: notjohn in response to: notjohn
 
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Well like I said i did a test by using tabs for indents and they worked on the Online sample

and I could tell it was the tab because I missed one and it did not indent!

This was on a file with Block text!

JT

;)
cjeasyaspie

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 6:32 PM   in response to: jtbigtoad in response to: jtbigtoad
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Well like I said i did a test by using tabs for
indents and they worked on the Online sample

and I could tell it was the tab because I missed one
and it did not indent!


Did you save as HTML filtered, then upload the HTML file?

Did notjohn upload the MS Word file directly?

In my experience, that's what happens:

Feed a MS Word file with first line indents of any kind directly to KDP, and the indents will be stripped.

Save the same MS Word file as HTML filtered, and upload the HTMLfile and the indents will be preserved.

CJ
jtbigtoad

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 7:09 PM   in response to: cjeasyaspie in response to: cjeasyaspie
 
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[b]Did you save as HTML filtered, then upload the HTML file?

[/b]

NO!

I did a straight Word.doc (2000) first with block text

The online preview yielded no auto indent

Then I added the tabbed indents to the Word.doc and uploaded that

Where ever there was a tabbed indent in the word.doc there was an indent in the online preview!

This goes contrary to everything that was the way the conversion behaved before!

Do we need to get pig proofed umbrellas or what???

JT

;)
cjeasyaspie

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 8:01 PM   in response to: jtbigtoad in response to: jtbigtoad
 
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John,

oh... but you are talking about the online previewer?

I don't think that counts... what happens when you actually download the Preview File and view it with the desktop Kindle Previewer... or copy it to your Kindle?

Because it is so much easier, I would like to be able to tell my "students" that they can upload directly to KDP...

And it does work perfectly if they don't have first line indents nor any special formatting...

But it doesn't work if they want first line indents.

I went through several exchanges with Kindle support and never could get any answer except that it is necessary to 'save as HTML filtered', and upload the HTML.

Would you please, pretty please, send me a sample of your test?

Thanks very much!

Happy Kindling,

CJ, at CJ's Easy as Pie Kindle Tutorials
http://www.cjs-easy-as-pie.com/
cj-01@cjs-easy-as-pie.com
notjohn

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 2:52 AM   in response to: cjeasyaspie in response to: cjeasyaspie
 
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I don't think JT is a John. More of a Notjohn.
notjohn

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Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 2:58 AM   in response to: notjohn in response to: notjohn
 
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I just ran that same Word doc through word2html and uploaded the html file. Everything is nicely indented, including the flush-left title! (I didn't create headings; the title was simply all caps, flush left.)

As noted, the word doc was in turn a conversion from a WordStar file, and I use tabs to create paragraph indents in WS. Perhaps if I had applied Normal Style to the resulting Word doc, the indents would have stuck in the KDP upload.)
jtbigtoad

Posts: 9,227
Registered: 08/01/10
Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 7:48 AM   in response to: cjeasyaspie in response to: cjeasyaspie
 
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[b]I don't think that counts... what happens when you actually download the Preview File and view it with the desktop Kindle Previewer... or copy it to your Kindle?
[/b]

The new Downloadable previewer shows the same Indents from the tabbed word.doc file

Also I had bookmarked the table of contents toc and that worked also

( that was part of a seperate question -- Many Irons - Small fire....)

On the John thing,

I am John, but everybody was confusing me with NotJohn and spo i just sign off with ....

JT

;)
jtbigtoad

Posts: 9,227
Registered: 08/01/10
Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 7:51 AM   in response to: jtbigtoad in response to: jtbigtoad
 
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Stupid, stupid

I forgot the file

Cannot add on edit!

JT

;)
cjeasyaspie

Posts: 2,358
Registered: 05/28/09
Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 9:33 AM   in response to: notjohn in response to: notjohn
 
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I just ran that same Word doc through word2html and
uploaded the html file. Everything is nicely
indented, including the flush-left title! (I didn't
create headings; the title was simply all caps, flush
left.)

YES... same experience I have with HTML.

As noted, the word doc was in turn a conversion from
a WordStar file, and I use tabs to create paragraph
indents in WS. Perhaps if I had applied Normal Style
to the resulting Word doc, the indents would have
stuck in the KDP upload.)

Not for me... I've tried tabs and I've tried Normal Style with first line indent built in... and neither will stick in the KDP upload.

I've tried everything else I could think of, too.

Including trying to convince someone at Amazon that this should not be.

I did get patient friendly responses...

About how to convert my file to HTML, filtered, and upload the HTML file to KDP.

I tried to convince them that this is a bug, not a feature, but got the same patient friendly response about how to convert my file to HTML, filtered, and upload the HTML file to KDP.

I tried to convince them that I am writing tutorials and that I KNOW how to upload files to KDP, and got the same patient, friendly response about how to convert my file to HTML, filtered, and upload the HTML file to KDP.

I explained that uploading the MS Word file directly to KDP is so much easier for newbies... and that's the reason I want to explain that method in my tutorials, and I got the same friendly response... how to convert my file to HTML and upload the HTML file to KDP.

For anyone reading this... and wondering... if you have a very plain vanilla MS Word file, you can upload it directly to KDP and get nice results...

But if you have bullets or other special formatting (or if you must have first line indents) you will get better results with HTML.

And... as to whether first line indented or block paragraph format is best... both are correct... but block paragraphs are more often used for non-fiction, and indented first line paragraphs more often used in fiction.

Personally, I prefer block paragraphs, even in fiction, for the Kindle, especially if the fiction book contains indented dialogue...

When you have so many short lines, first line indents may be correct, but it "looks funny".

Happy Kindling,

CJ, at CJ's Easy as Pie Kindle Tutorials
http://www.cjs-easy-as-pie.com/
cj-01@cjs-easy-as-pie.com
notjohn

Posts: 15,241
Registered: 01/06/10
Re: DID YOU KNOW THE KINDLE CONVERSION NO LONGER AUTO INDENTS!
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 2:16 PM   in response to: cjeasyaspie in response to: cjeasyaspie
 
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Yes, "support" can be unhelpful. I asked four times for Kindle Guy to send me a new copy of the book I had purchased, because I was tweaking the drop-cap feature.

The first reply warned me that I would thereby wipe out any highlights etc, and if I really really wanted to do this, that I should use the Contact form.

I did, and I got an identical email response.

I did it again and remarked that this was my THIRD attempt. This time I got an email pointing out that Kindle doesn't support drop caps.

I said to hell with it and went online and download the free sample to my Fire. The drop-caps look just fine.

I didn't realize that once you had bought a book, you could still download the sample, but we can. I now have both the book (bad drop-caps) and the updated sample (good drop-caps) on my Fire.
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