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Thread: Gatekeepers


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Permlink Replies: 157 - Pages: 11 [ Previous | 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 | Next ] - Last Post: Apr 23, 2012 3:07 AM Last Post By: petaward
bastaborn

Posts: 126
Registered: 04/07/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 6:05 AM   in response to: hlest in response to: hlest
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There have always been bad books published and sold
in bookstores. Readers don't buy them and they
disappear. I'm sure the same will happen on Kindle.

This is my point...in the stores. shelf space is limited, so the bad disappear, on Kindle, the virtual shelf space has no limit. In the real world of book stores, what would happen if unread books didn't disappear from the shelves? Imagine a 200 floor tower block, filled with books...would you look at known authors just to cut down on browsing time, or trawl through from the 1st floor knowing that it's mostly rubbish?

Book shops only take books that have come through several gatekeepers, and they clear out the bad in order that the good will still sell...thus reducing the rubbish drag factor...

B
robethpublishin...

Posts: 2,789
Registered: 12/09/09
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 6:50 AM   in response to: bastaborn in response to: bastaborn
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Perhaps I bristle at the gatekeeper thing because I bristle at censorship. Because when you come right down to It, they are the very same things.
I believe in the fair market – as long as the fair market is allowed to work.

Being a successful indi is not a get rich scheme. Those authors who write one or two titles, and then sit back and get rich – or even make a decent living – are rare or nonexistent.

Those who make any real money typically have more than just a couple of titles – and that requires work. You have to keep writing and writing.
I find it had to believe someone is going to keep writing and publishing if people hate their work and sales are dismal.

Eventually those books will be lost at the back of the search pages, and unlike RL bookstores, the customers will rarely find them.
renfelt

Posts: 57
Registered: 03/27/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 6:52 AM   in response to: bastaborn in response to: bastaborn
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Hmm. Your system would not stop bad so much a as it would stop "like, not normal!"

Imagine running Dan Brown and James Joyce through such a taste committee. One would pass with flying colors, and one would be rejected.

August Renfelt
diamondlifestyle

Posts: 4,193
Registered: 07/02/11
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:03 AM   in response to: hlest in response to: hlest
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[i]Why would they read a bad book and assume mine will be bad because I'm an indie?[/i]

But the sad thing is that's exactly what's happening. If I had a pound for every time I've seen "all indies are crap" in a reader forum, well, I wouldn't need to sell books to make money :p
bastaborn

Posts: 126
Registered: 04/07/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:10 AM   in response to: renfelt in response to: renfelt
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Imagine running Dan Brown and James Joyce through
such a taste committee. One would pass with flying
colors, and one would be rejected.

It's not so much a taste thing, more a readability thing and a story well told...I would never read love stories, that's me, but a well written and flowing love story would still pass; perhaps there should be many committees...one for each genre...
waynekernochan

Posts: 294
Registered: 03/27/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:13 AM   in response to: diamondlifestyle in response to: diamondlifestyle
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I'm seeing the same discussions among readers, but, I've been seeing these discussions for a few years, and sales aren't that bad considering
robethpublishin...

Posts: 2,789
Registered: 12/09/09
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:19 AM   in response to: diamondlifestyle in response to: diamondlifestyle
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While readers may hold that view – I bet most customers have no clue who publishes the books they buy.

Their definition of “indi” might be far different from ours.

They might see the indi as the 99 cent book, the book with the crappy cover, the book with the awkward description, the book with the horrific sample or the book by the author with just one or two books.

Our daughter (age 29) buys one or more eBooks a week for her iPad., I asked her if she buys books from indies – and she told me she never checks the publisher.

Message was edited by: robethpublishingllc
authormark

Posts: 350
Registered: 01/06/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:35 AM   in response to: tracihilton in response to: tracihilton
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Your forgetting the most important thing - it's not about writers it's about the customers.

Every piece of crap with 20 five star reviews or 2 page scamphlet reduces a customers trust in indi writers. Which damages us all.

Amazon is a commercial site, not a playground to play with peoples hard earned money.
bastaborn

Posts: 126
Registered: 04/07/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:38 AM   in response to: robethpublishin... in response to: robethpublishin...
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Being a successful indi is not a get rich scheme.
Those authors who write one or two titles, and then
sit back and get rich – or even make a decent living
– are rare or nonexistent.

Personally...I want to make money...and I don't understand people publishing a book if they only want their parents and friends to read it. Any writer that doesn't want to be the next JKR is a fibber...otherwise, it really is just vanity publishing, and that's just a tiny bit sad...

I am not talking about censorship...I am talking about quality control, if a rose has too much dung dumped on, it will never grow...

B
tracihilton

Posts: 4,838
Registered: 08/11/10
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:40 AM   in response to: robethpublishin... in response to: robethpublishin...
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Amen again to Robethpublishingllc.

Now I want to see everyone name 12 famous living authors.

12.

Can you do it?

I think readers can actually name less than 5. "Unknown" authors and "indy" authors are going to be those who appear unprofessional. And "known" authors are going to be those the reader feels like they must have run across somewhere before.

There are thousands of traditionally published authors no one has ever heard of. According to a wise guy I met once there are about 30 living authors everyone should read before they die, but honestly, can you name 30 living authors, much less the 30 best out of the thousands that exists?

Today's rant/post is less about the thread topic of gatekeeping, and more about perception. If you want to appear to be a professional, look professional.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/154606011

4 of the 20 books on the first page of the best sellers list have amazon as their publisher, and 3 of them are 50 shades of grey trilogy which we know is an indy that JUST got snatched up by a publisher.

Customers buy indy books by the droves.

Traci

Message was edited by: tracihilton

bastaborn

Posts: 126
Registered: 04/07/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 7:50 AM   in response to: robethpublishin... in response to: robethpublishin...
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While readers may hold that view – I bet most
customers have no clue who publishes the books they
buy.

Their definition of “indi” might be far different
from ours.

They might see the indi as the 99 cent book, the book
with the crappy cover, the book with the awkward
description, the book with the horrific sample or the
book by the author with just one or two books.

Our daughter (age 29) buys one or more eBooks a week
for her iPad., I asked her if she buys books from
indies – and she told me she never checks the
publisher.

This is also why the big six want indie's out...because we are killing their gatekeeping system, bypassing their control and flooding the market; if we do it with 90% rubbish, we will be committing literary suicide...it will reach a point where millions of people will sell two books each and only an established author will sell more...

lins777

Posts: 1,756
Registered: 07/22/11
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 8:01 AM   in response to: authormark in response to: authormark
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Well said.

In the past I have ALWAYS disagreed with the 7 day return policy, but now having trawled through piles of absolute crud, I'm going to start asking for refunds.

Regrettably I have yet to find, " Some of the worst edited, craziest formatted books that are still truly spectacular works of genius."[b][/b]
authormark

Posts: 350
Registered: 01/06/12
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 8:01 AM   in response to: tracihilton in response to: tracihilton
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Customers buy indy books by the droves.

For how long - how many crap books will it take before they begin to look closer at the publisher and think twice before hitting buy on an unknown author.
robethpublishin...

Posts: 2,789
Registered: 12/09/09
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 8:02 AM   in response to: tracihilton in response to: tracihilton
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Back in the late 1990’s I went through this romance book craze. My husband and I worked on one side of the lake, and lived on the other, so our kids could go to school. Often I would come home (by boat) with the kids, without my husband. That meant nights alone and I am not much of a TV person.

My first stop was at the used bookstore. I am a fast reader and can easily finish one book a night. If I found a writer I liked, I would end up reading all his or her books I could find at the bookstore. Then I would go onto the next author.

Obviously, back then the books weren’t indies, but my concern was finding an author I liked. If I picked up a book by an author I had never heard of before, and didn’t like the book, I would pass on that author and move onto another.

I believe ebook readers are the same way. Most successful indi writers will tell you they start making money when they have a number of published titles – not when a big 6 publisher gives a stamp of approval.

Case in point, this morning I sold 6 books to one customer over at Smashwords. I write under a number of pen names, and that particular pen name has the most published titles. It is also the pen name that pays the bills.
lins777

Posts: 1,756
Registered: 07/22/11
Re: Gatekeepers
Posted: Apr 22, 2012 8:16 AM   in response to: tracihilton in response to: tracihilton
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Dan Brown
Martina Cole
Lesley Pearse
John Grisham
Ian Patterson
Steven King
Graham Masterson
Lynda La Plant
James Herbert
J K Rowling
Danielle Steele
Michael Crichton
Clive Cussler...

Don't know why you asked this Traci, but got the brain working!
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