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Permlink Replies: 11 - Pages: 1 - Last Post: Jan 29, 2018 8:28 AM Last Post By: Jonathan B
Salamander Mall...

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Registered: 10/16/17
Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 6:47 AM
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In a recent thread, the redoubtable Hitch pointed out to me the hopelessness of trying to protect newbies from themselves. The post was another of those inane rants from a newbie who, having published a book, was incensed that a bookseller was actually selling it. Just one of hundreds of idiotic posts that daily display utter ignorance of the publishing and bookselling professions. Those ignorant of the craft of writing (50%?) may fill the bookshelves with carp and clutter, but they tarnish themselves more than others. Those ignorant of the business of publishing (98%?) tarnish those of us trying to be taken seriously by publishers and distributors. Over the past several years, I've tried to guide the willfully ignorant, tried to share experience from forty years in publishing (retired ten years ago), tried to help others rise to their potential as professional publishers. But I've decided Hitch is right. If you think there's value in feeding pearls to swine, have at it, but I'm tired of being Sisyphus.
Diana Persaud

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 6:58 AM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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I hear you, loud and clear.

That's why I've cut back on my responses. Occasionally I might respond so that lurkers don't get the wrong information. But if I could figure stuff out with a little bit of effort, I don't see why others can't do the same. The truth is out there...(cue Xfiles sound track).

By cutting down the posts, I managed to write 2 novels in 5 months and I think I'll go back to doing that.
Joseph M Erhardt

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 7:18 AM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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Sal, a tip: The side of the bed next to the wall is NOT the side you want to get up on. :)

(And yes, you do have several good points in your complaint. Still ... )
Ralph E Vaughan

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 10:50 AM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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Salamander Mallory wrote:
In a recent thread, the redoubtable Hitch pointed out to me the hopelessness of trying to protect newbies from themselves. The post was another of those inane rants from a newbie who, having published a book, was incensed that a bookseller was actually selling it. Just one of hundreds of idiotic posts that daily display utter ignorance of the publishing and bookselling professions. Those ignorant of the craft of writing (50%?) may fill the bookshelves with carp and clutter, but they tarnish themselves more than others. Those ignorant of the business of publishing (98%?) tarnish those of us trying to be taken seriously by publishers and distributors. Over the past several years, I've tried to guide the willfully ignorant, tried to share experience from forty years in publishing (retired ten years ago), tried to help others rise to their potential as professional publishers. But I've decided Hitch is right. If you think there's value in feeding pearls to swine, have at it, but I'm tired of being Sisyphus.

If it's any consolation, it's not just writing and publishing. People seem to think there ought to be an easy way to do most everything. It's why they quit. In our own field, it's common that newbies love the idea of being a writer and publisher, then find out being a writer is hard work, being a publisher is even harder. If we're lucky, they quit.

I understand your frustration, but good advice doesn't always fall among the tares or on rocky ground. If 99 out of a hundred stamp their feet and run off, that doesn't negate the one who takes advice to heart and becomes a better writer, or decides that knowledge really is preferable to ignorance. My thought is that it's not the crybabies and Angry Young Writers who bene*fit, but those who read and learn -- they learn how not to act, and they might take to heart the advice given. Hang in there.
booknookbiz

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 11:53 AM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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Salamander Mallory wrote:
In a recent thread, the redoubtable Hitch pointed out to me the hopelessness of trying to protect newbies from themselves. The post was another of those inane rants from a newbie who, having published a book, was incensed that a bookseller was actually selling it. Just one of hundreds of idiotic posts that daily display utter ignorance of the publishing and bookselling professions. Those ignorant of the craft of writing (50%?) may fill the bookshelves with carp and clutter, but they tarnish themselves more than others. Those ignorant of the business of publishing (98%?) tarnish those of us trying to be taken seriously by publishers and distributors. Over the past several years, I've tried to guide the willfully ignorant, tried to share experience from forty years in publishing (retired ten years ago), tried to help others rise to their potential as professional publishers. But I've decided Hitch is right. If you think there's value in feeding pearls to swine, have at it, but I'm tired of being Sisyphus.

First, Sal, thanks for the compliment. Redoubtable, high praise indeed, from you.

I chuckled when I saw the thread title--it had to be you or one of the other masters of repartee that haunt this forum. ;-) I, too, get tired of that boulder!

However, you know...I was thinking. Much like those in physics, we tend to infer the successes of our work here by the shadows, if you know what I mean. And that being the case, here's what we don't know--we don't know how many people that we do help. We only know that a very few of the people that we try to help say thanks; some seem to get it, and then, sadly, a lot of the people that we try to help don't get it at all, and either lash out at us, or ignore us (remember the guy who thought that the Google books' results were somehow stealing customers and money from him?), and so on, right?

BUT: we don't know how many people see our answers, our comments, on the forum, beause they are researching before they leap. Occasionally, we'll see a post, from a new forum member, who never posts more than a handful of times, necroposting a comment on an old thread, thanking the folks who responded for (unknowingly) providing an answer to a question that wasn't even asked at the time, that helped someone a year, two years, etc., down the line.

So...we have to reconsider. YES, it's frustrating as hell. I get as bonkers as you do, sometimes more so. (I've been here longer, which either means I'm a masochist, or I'm just crazier.) When I see myself becoming very sharp or terse, in my responses, I'll try to take a break, before I say something unprofessional or just mean. But the truth is--and maybe I'm being Pollyanna here, but nobody has ever accused me of that--we are probably helping a lot of people that we'll never know about, never meet. I guess, all things being equal, we're going to have to be satisfied with that unknown quantity of self-pubs.

You know what I mean? I don't think I'm being overly-optimistic. I think it's probably true. I mean, we see successful self-pubs all the time, in our walks in life, here, on other self-pubbing forums, etc. Those folks come from somewhere, and gain their knowledge somewhere. Who's to say that our "pearls" aren't picked up by those willing to hear them, willing to learn from them?

Hitch
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C. Gold

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 12:23 PM   in response to: booknookbiz in response to: booknookbiz
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Well said.

As someone who hit publish for the first time in August '17, and my first novel in Oct '17, I have definitely picked up tidbits of info here, including finding kboards.com which has been of immense help for getting a cover designer and becoming involved with a small group of writers in our own private FB group. All that wouldn't have happened without the people here posting helpful stuff.

So chin up, and keep posting, because there has to be other people like me who lurk, find good pointers, and make a go of things without asking about basics that were covered in the Publish on Amazon Kindle with Kindle Direct Publishing by Kindle Direct Publishing (available for free)
resteasy

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 4:46 PM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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Now that could make a great scifi novel. How Sisyphus is trapped in a timelock, and his struggle to break free. Sort of Groundhog Day.
cdalebrittain

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Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 4:55 PM   in response to: booknookbiz in response to: booknookbiz
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I'm with you, Hitch. I probably spend too much time on the forums, but I know my "Know your Reports" thread gets something like 1000 hits a month, so I'm hoping it's helping somebody . On the main Community page it lists how many people are on the forums. There might be a couple dozen (at most) logged in, but generally there are over 1000 "guests." They must lurk and learn.

As a teacher, I had to constantly remind myself that the ones who wanted to pass without doing the work were the most obvious ones but far from the most numerous.
Mary Peebels

Posts: 574
Registered: 01/07/16
Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 28, 2018 6:15 PM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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Salamander Mallory wrote:
In a recent thread, the redoubtable Hitch pointed out to me the hopelessness of trying to protect newbies from themselves. The post was another of those inane rants from a newbie who, having published a book, was incensed that a bookseller was actually selling it. Just one of hundreds of idiotic posts that daily display utter ignorance of the publishing and bookselling professions. Those ignorant of the craft of writing (50%?) may fill the bookshelves with carp and clutter, but they tarnish themselves more than others. Those ignorant of the business of publishing (98%?) tarnish those of us trying to be taken seriously by publishers and distributors. Over the past several years, I've tried to guide the willfully ignorant, tried to share experience from forty years in publishing (retired ten years ago), tried to help others rise to their potential as professional publishers. But I've decided Hitch is right. If you think there's value in feeding pearls to swine, have at it, but I'm tired of being Sisyphus.

I lurked for two years before making an account. In that time, the information here helped me make a decision to publish on Amazon. I've made sure to express my gratitude, as have others.There's always going to be ungrateful persons anywhere you go.

Like others have said, there's no way to know how many have been helped but don't like taking part in board participation. Some people dislike posting on boards as much as you dislike being Sisyphus.

I hope you'll stay around.
wirdmonger

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Registered: 01/07/12
Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 12:21 AM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
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maybe we need a few more posts like the fabulous Know Your Sales Dashboard that C Dale does. We can just refer to that.
Ralph E Vaughan

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Registered: 12/01/12
Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 8:00 AM   in response to: wirdmonger in response to: wirdmonger
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wirdmonger wrote:
maybe we need a few more posts like the fabulous Know Your Sales Dashboard that C Dale does. We can just refer to that.

If only there were a way to pin Dale's post to the top...where, I suppose, it would be as unread as the forum rules. At least it would be easy to find, wouldn't need constant bumping up, and couldn't be lengthened unnecessarily by every "Thank you," "Great idea" and " I got the same problem."
Jonathan B

Posts: 4,612
Registered: 10/23/12
Re: Stop Being Sisyphus
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 8:28 AM   in response to: wirdmonger in response to: wirdmonger
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wirdmonger wrote:
maybe we need a few more posts like the fabulous Know Your Sales Dashboard that C Dale does. We can just refer to that.

That's actually a good idea. Instead of ignoring them or making snarky comments, we can just refer them to that pinned thread.
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