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Thread: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it


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Permlink Replies: 44 - Pages: 3 [ Previous | 1 2 3 ] - Last Post: Feb 18, 2018 11:47 AM Last Post By: Diana Persaud
cdalebrittain

Posts: 11,833
Registered: 03/05/11
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 10:00 AM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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So, I gather you haven't registered your copyright. Big mistake. And kind of funny considering how worried you are about someone copying your work. It only costs $35. The line from copyright dot gov that you quoted makes it clear how severely limited are your rights in court if you don't register. The manuscript in an envelope thing is an urban legend with zero legal force.
2reads1story

Posts: 17
Registered: 09/05/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 11:05 AM   in response to: cdalebrittain in response to: cdalebrittain
 
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cdalebrittain posted the following message:

"So, I gather you haven't registered your copyright. Big mistake. And kind of funny considering how worried you are about someone copying your work. It only costs $35. The line from copyright dot gov that you quoted makes it clear how severely limited are your rights in court if you don't register. The manuscript in an envelope thing is an urban legend with zero legal force."

You have no clue what I have copyrighted or not copyright, so you can "gather" and guess all you like. And I know exactly how much copyrights costs (I have many). And do point out the line from the copyright gov site about "limited rights" on the money amount because of late registration of a copyright. And the manuscript in the envelope is not an urban legend simply because you believe it to be so. I'll give you an example of what I mean. In some states, a voter can provide proof of his/her identity by showing a USPO envelope with his/her address as documented proof of residency. It is based on the same premise . The USPO is supported by our government and their stamp-markings (time, date, etc) on an envelope constitutes legitimacy (lawfulness). Well, I have no more to say on this matter but bye-bye. I’m through with this discussion board.

Salamander Mall...

Posts: 1,014
Registered: 10/16/17
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 12:06 PM   in response to: cdalebrittain in response to: cdalebrittain
 
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cdalebrittain wrote:
So, I gather you haven't registered your copyright. Big mistake. And kind of funny considering how worried you are about someone copying your work. It only costs $35. The line from copyright dot gov that you quoted makes it clear how severely limited are your rights in court if you don't register. The manuscript in an envelope thing is an urban legend with zero legal force.

It's not so much an urban legend as just not true -- it never was.
Salamander Mall...

Posts: 1,014
Registered: 10/16/17
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 12:11 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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2reads1story wrote:
...

...

Well, I have no more to say on this matter but bye-bye. I’m through with this discussion board.


You'll be missed, but your screaming text might not be. Good luck.
Diana Persaud

Posts: 2,780
Registered: 10/07/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 12:53 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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All I will say is that anyone who is publishing via KDP is responsible for understanding copyright and your rights and responsibilities. Don't believe what some stranger posts on the internet. Go to copyright.gov and read the information for yourself. And if you have any questions, email the copyright office. They are courteous and answer fairly quickly.

You are the publisher. You need to understand the law and how to make sure you're protected.
cdalebrittain

Posts: 11,833
Registered: 03/05/11
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 7:37 PM   in response to: Diana Persaud in response to: Diana Persaud
 
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Any newbies reading this, pay attention to what Diana just said.

Salamander, don't worry, he's not gone, just lurking.

Here's the text he quoted (see previous page of this thread) from the copyright dot gov site. It makes it pretty clear that you need to register your copyright if you want to be able to collect for damages.

Registration establishes prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright and facts stated in the certificate when registration is made before or within five years of publication.
When registration is made prior to infringement or within three months after publication of a work, a copyright owner is eligible for statutory damages, attorneys’ fees, and costs.

No idea why he insists it doesn't say this. I also conclude (not just gather) that he hasn't bothered to register his copyright, or he would have said so, and wouldn't have tried to insist (falsely!) that the postmarked envelope thing can prove copyright. It can't. Read what copyright dot gov says about this "poor man's copyright." Being able to establish your address for voter registration purposes tells us zero about copyright.

Who's making popcorn?
Mary Peebels

Posts: 588
Registered: 01/07/16
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 27, 2018 4:58 PM   in response to: cdalebrittain in response to: cdalebrittain
 
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I guess I missed out on the popcorn?

(the poor man's...) Years ago, when I first started patenting designs for my business, I visited my attorney and told him I'd already mailed myself copies of documents as proof.

He said, "All that proves is that you might have mailed yourself an empty and unsealed envelope."
Dale Manolakas

Posts: 73
Registered: 03/30/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 8:33 PM   in response to: Ralph E Vaughan in response to: Ralph E Vaughan
 
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You either can't read English or have no understanding of the law. You can assign for the limited purpose of protection. Since Amazon sucks every dime out of us, why not help us out? Read the law before you take such a vehement and unknowledgeable position.

Edited by: Dale Manolakas on Feb 8, 2018 8:52 PM
Dale Manolakas

Posts: 73
Registered: 03/30/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 8:51 PM   in response to: Diana Persaud in response to: Diana Persaud
 
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Yes, we all do that. That is not the issue raised.

It is Amazon aiding the author in helping to strip illegal copyright sites off the internet.
Why not help their authors out? It would be a nice gesture and make all authors' efforts not duplicative. Instead of each of us getting our book off illegal sites and You Tube, etc. they could shut down the whole cite or all Amazon exclusive book infringements.

This discussion has degenerated and broadened out of proportion. It was a friendly suggestion. BUT IF ALL YOU AUTHORS JUST LOOOVE USING YOUR TIME TO TRACK DOWN INFRINGERS MORE POWER TO YOU. HAVE AT IT!!!! MY BLESSINGS. And if you think the big five publishing companies don't close down infringers you are mistaken. Amazon as a publisher for its own bottom line and for its authors do the same.

An author can assign limited rights for a publisher to protect their copyright. Consult a lawyer if you need to but don't tel untruths amongst us some of whom just happen to be lawyers.

Won't be contributing again for another year or so. Tired of trying to help authors out.

Dale E. Manolakas
Ralph E Vaughan

Posts: 3,601
Registered: 12/01/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 9:30 PM   in response to: Dale Manolakas in response to: Dale Manolakas
 
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Dale Manolakas wrote:
You either can't read English or have no understanding of the law. You can assign for the limited purpose of protection. Since Amazon sucks every dime out of us, why not help us out? Read the law before you take such a vehement and unknowledgeable position.

Edited by: Dale Manolakas on Feb 8, 2018 8:52 PM


There was nothing in my post that required such a rude and abusive response from you. Questions are posed for the purpose of exposing weaknesses in a position. If you have not pitched your request to Amazon, and have no realistic reason why Amazon should provide free legal services to every wannabe writer, then that is definitely a weakness in your argument. But it's not a reason to attack the person that asked what others must be wondering. Like everyone else, I have not paid one penny to Amazon to use the KDP platform. They owe me nothing, and I beg them for nothing. Good luck with your project.
Donna St Felix

Posts: 6,363
Registered: 09/18/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 1:09 AM   in response to: Dale Manolakas in response to: Dale Manolakas
 
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Dale Manolakas wrote:
It is Amazon aiding the author in helping to strip illegal copyright sites off the internet.
Why not help their authors out? It would be a nice gesture and make all authors' efforts not duplicative. Instead of each of us getting our book off illegal sites and You Tube, etc. they could shut down the whole cite or all Amazon exclusive book infringements.

Should 'King Zon' do what you propose, they will charge for it either immediately or pay for it by lower royalties.

Amazon as a publisher for its own bottom line and for its authors do the same.

Concerning our books, Amazon is NOT a publisher. The person who puts the book on Amazon is THE publisher.

An author can assign limited rights for a publisher to protect their copyright.

As Amazon is NOT the publisher of our books and the person who lists the book is, you are actually saying that WE OURSELVES as a publisher should be protecting our own copyright.
Dale Manolakas

Posts: 73
Registered: 03/30/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 14, 2018 5:43 AM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
 
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All in all a good thread. Lots of interesting opinions. Enjoyed the intelligence and wit and cynical consensus. Didn't understand what some said--too obscured. However, thanks for engaging.

Obviously, we are not going to join together with one voice because our opinions differ widely. There is no movement afoot here and none to be had. But perhaps another discussion later when there is more news or theft becomes so rampant that Mr. Zon can no longer make money on us????

Chapters yet to come.

            • Meanwhile, copyright your work. https://www.copyright.gov/ And to help you all, I actually have found YouTube very responsive in taking down my books illegally sold by others. I also go straight to the website builder. Direct requests to the thieves I have found are usually a waste of time. If you have other hints or actions, please share them with all of us now. Let's help each other. I hear there are companies that will patrol for you. Are there any recommendations? *****

Dale E. Manolakas
Dale Manolakas

Posts: 73
Registered: 03/30/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 18, 2018 8:34 AM   in response to: Donna St Felix in response to: Donna St Felix
 
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Not rude, just responsive to your lack of knowledge.
Dale Manolakas

Posts: 73
Registered: 03/30/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 18, 2018 8:42 AM   in response to: Donna St Felix in response to: Donna St Felix
 
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I am withdrawing from this circular chaos of misinformation. For the 20th time --- you do NOT have to be the publisher to protect a copyright. The actual publisher can assign limited rights to Amazon to protect the copyright. I am so finished with this. Say anything you like -- right or wrong -- informed or misinformed.
Diana Persaud

Posts: 2,780
Registered: 10/07/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Feb 18, 2018 11:47 AM   in response to: Dale Manolakas in response to: Dale Manolakas
 
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Dale Manolakas wrote:
I am withdrawing from this circular chaos of misinformation. For the 20th time --- you do NOT have to be the publisher to protect a copyright. The actual publisher can assign limited rights to Amazon to protect the copyright. I am so finished with this. Say anything you like -- right or wrong -- informed or misinformed.

You seem to be missing the key point that everyone is pointing out: Amazon has NO interest in taking the copyright of self published authors. NONE whatsoever. You can post as many times as you wish, but that simple fact is not going to change.

If you are selling well and they are interested in your work for one of their imprints, then they will create a contract between INDIVIDUAL authors and their imprints (like Montlake or 47 North) and then they will protect THOSE copyrights.

If someone came up to my door and dropped off a baby, it doesn't mean I am obligated to take care of it. Yet you are arguing just that--that your demands (not your right) trumps the other party's rights. You can't force Amazon to take your copyright. It doesn't work that way.
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