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Thread: Use Print ISBNs


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Permlink Replies: 17 - Pages: 2 [ 1 2 | Next ] - Last Post: Dec 29, 2007 3:52 PM Last Post By: awakeningsbooks
ye_fan98

Posts: 2
Registered: 11/20/07
Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 12:45 PM
 
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Hi, I a small publisher with several hundred books to go forward with, many of them already available on Amazon.

Should I use print ISBNs for kindle ebooks?

And... does it matter?
kdpadmin

Posts: 1,464
Registered: 01/01/70
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 1:20 PM   in response to: ye_fan98 in response to: ye_fan98
 
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You should enter the print book ISBN in the appropriate field in DTP. For the time being, they will not yet be associated properly in the catalog, but forthcoming functionality will show the Kindle Edition as an alternate edition if searched for by ISBN in the Amazon catalog.
ye_fan98

Posts: 2
Registered: 11/20/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 20, 2007 2:26 PM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
 
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Thanks!
awakeningsbooks

Posts: 20
Registered: 11/21/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 21, 2007 7:05 AM   in response to: ye_fan98 in response to: ye_fan98
 
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My $0.02 -- whilst it may not "matter" internal to the Amazon system -- unless you happen to also have print editions -- it seems precisely the wrong answer from and ISBN point of view, ie, the principle is a different ISBN for each edition.

This answer seems the same to me as saying "use the same ISBN for hardcover and paperback."
kdpadmin

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Registered: 01/01/70
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 21, 2007 8:16 AM   in response to: awakeningsbooks in response to: awakeningsbooks
 
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DTP does not create an ISBN for the Kindle Edition of a book. This means that if you have a (print) book and an ISBN for it already, it'll be more likely that the Kindle Edition will be found (and, eventually, linked to it by the Amazon product page for the print product) by customers.
klarsen37

Posts: 4
Registered: 11/22/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 21, 2007 7:16 PM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
 
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DTP does not create an ISBN for the Kindle Edition of
a book. This means that if you have a (print) book
and an ISBN for it already, it'll be more likely that
the Kindle Edition will be found (and, eventually,
linked to it by the Amazon product page for the print
product) by customers.

You realize, I hope, that this is exactly the opposite of what the International ISBN Agency indicates?

The ISBN manual (found in pdf format at: http://www.isbn-international.org/en/manual.html) says:

Different product forms of a publication (e.g., hardback,
paperback, Braille, audiobook, online electronic
publication) require separate ISBNs. Where electronic
publications are made available in different formats
(e.g. .lit, .pdf, .html, .pdb) each separately available
format shall be assigned a unique ISBN.

While I am all for making the Kindle edition easy to find, your suggestion to use the print ISBN is simply wrong.
kdpadmin

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Registered: 01/01/70
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 22, 2007 8:46 PM   in response to: klarsen37 in response to: klarsen37
 
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We understand what you are suggesting, but for ease of internal use and finding a Kindle Book, providing your print ISBN will simply enable customers to locate different versions more easily in the Amazon catalog.
cub06h

Posts: 3,186
Registered: 11/23/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 24, 2007 10:01 AM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
 
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Since Amazon assigns a new ASIN to the Kindle edition, it seems to me that the complaint is moot. (Note that it doesn't get a a new ISBN, but like an out-of-print book published in the days before ISBNS (I am old enough to have several listed on Amazon) it gets a made-up ASIN.

I am delighted to hear that the Kindle edition will (eventually) show as an alternate edition. Funnily enough, I find that one of two Kindle editions I uploaded over the past two days is found on a title search, though it doesn't show as an "other edition" on the book's main page.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
klarsen37

Posts: 4
Registered: 11/22/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 24, 2007 2:27 PM   in response to: cub06h in response to: cub06h
 
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Since Amazon assigns a new ASIN to the Kindle
edition, it seems to me that the complaint is moot.
(Note that it doesn't get a a new ISBN, but like an
out-of-print book published in the days before ISBNS
(I am old enough to have several listed on Amazon) it
gets a made-up ASIN.

Then that is wrong also. The ISBN has identifying information in it. Using the ISBN it is possible to identify the publisher. And, in most bookstore sites, it is possible to enter an ISBN and have it find the work.

If what you are saying is true, and Amazon gives the Kindle edition an ASIN that isn't the publisher-assigned ISBN, then the publisher's ISBN for the Kindle edition is useless. It wouldn't make sense to promote the book using the publisher's ISBN, because you then can't use it to identify the work!

This will be a major problem if other vendors are ever able to sell books for the Kindle. How will they identify the work? Will they then use the Amazon ASIN instead? How do I know what the Amazon ASIN is ahead of time, so that I can put it in the work (usually an important way of promoting the work). If one Kindle user sees your work on another's Kindle, how do they then find it to purchase it?

I'm sorry, but this kind of thing annoys me. It makes Amazon seem like a company that doesn't play well with others.
cub06h

Posts: 3,186
Registered: 11/23/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 25, 2007 3:49 AM   in response to: klarsen37 in response to: klarsen37
 
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[i]If what you are saying is true, and Amazon gives the Kindle edition an ASIN that isn't the publisher-assigned ISBN, then the publisher's ISBN for the Kindle edition is useless. It wouldn't make sense to promote the book using the publisher's ISBN, because you then can't use it to identify the work![/i]

I don't see that it matters at all, except to the very few people who search ON AMAZON by using ISBNs. (I do, from time to time.) The ASIN is just an internal accounting function for Amazon. You can also use the ASIN to search for an item, including a Kindle book.

It's an interesting question, so I've run a test. If I plug in the Kindle ASIN, I get only the Kindle edition, not its paper editions. If I plug in the ISBN of the hardcover, I get only the hardcover, not the paperback nor the Kindle one. And if I plug in the ISBN of the paperback, the paperback is all I get. Each ASIN/ISBN is unique and doesn't help you find alternate versions.

Or put it another way, the publisher-assigned ISBN is useless for finding anything except that particular edition of the work.

I rather doubt that Barnes & Noble will be selling Kindle editions any time soon, but if they do, they'll just have to use the Amazon ASIN, I guess.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
klarsen37

Posts: 4
Registered: 11/22/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 26, 2007 8:17 AM   in response to: cub06h in response to: cub06h
 
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Or put it another way, the publisher-assigned ISBN is
useless for finding anything except that particular
edition of the work.

This is not my experience. Whenever possible, Amazon seems to promote the other editions of a title, listing them after the words "Also Available in: " An abreviated version of the listing also appears in the search results, where it says "Other Editions: "

I rather doubt that Barnes & Noble will be selling
Kindle editions any time soon, but if they do,
they'll just have to use the Amazon ASIN, I guess.

Yep, there is two additional problems then. The proprietary nature of the Kindle essentially locks out other vendors -- not an ideal situation, IMO.

Then, even if others figure out a way to provide Kindle-formated books, we still have to use Amazon's number.

I'll say it again, it seems like Amazon doesn't want to play well with others!

What is especially confusing about this decision is the fact that allowing the publisher to identify the ebook with their own ISBN is relatively simple. Its one additional field in the record for the book. Amazon can still ask publishers to enter the ISBN of the print edition of the book, as a way of making the links easier.

How hard can following the industry standard be?
rdsalemi

Posts: 4
Registered: 11/29/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 29, 2007 5:31 AM   in response to: klarsen37 in response to: klarsen37
 
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Yup. This answers the question clearly. Kindle books need their own ISBN.

The searching in Amazon is ancillary. We can't create different standards of use for ISBN for each book store.
ebeneezerscrooge

Posts: 7
Registered: 11/29/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 30, 2007 4:40 PM   in response to: klarsen37 in response to: klarsen37
 
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Librarians would be livid and yelling at this point about this thread. The ISBN is meant to identify specific works and specific editions. The Kindle edition of a book should be registered with its own unique ISBN.

To my mind this is the best answer posted above:
[i]What is especially confusing about this decision is the fact that allowing the publisher to identify the ebook with their own ISBN is relatively simple. Its one additional field in the record for the book. Amazon can still ask publishers to enter the ISBN of the print edition of the book, as a way of making the links easier.[/i]

Amazon should not appropriate the system for cataloging books used widely and turn it to their own ends. Sounds a bit like Microsoft if you ask me...
psk341

Posts: 8
Registered: 12/01/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Nov 30, 2007 6:53 PM   in response to: ebeneezerscrooge in response to: ebeneezerscrooge
 
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Amazon clearly needs to issue a unique ISBN for each book it publishes and until it does it's doubtful legitimate authors would wish to upload to Kindle.
twmpublishing

Posts: 1
Registered: 11/20/07
Re: Use Print ISBNs
Posted: Dec 1, 2007 6:09 PM   in response to: ebeneezerscrooge in response to: ebeneezerscrooge
 
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This publisher's 2 cent:

I would love to see the Kindle database modified to comply with the ISBN standard by allowing an original ISBN to be keyed for the Kindle Edition and then in a second data field be able to enter a traditional format ISBN to link to it.

We have at least one book in production in which the Kindle Edition will differ somewhat in content to the original edition. To list them with the same ISBN would be wrong, so we will assign it a number of it's own. By Amazon not providing a way to link it to its paper counter part, they are potentially losing sales.
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