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Thread: Page Breaks needed?


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Permlink Replies: 10 - Pages: 1 - Last Post: Feb 29, 2008 2:03 PM Last Post By: randomblink
collierbiz

Posts: 1
Registered: 11/24/07
Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Nov 24, 2007 8:04 AM
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I'm preparing my book for upload. It was originally in Word, formatted for 6"x9" page size. When I save to HTML, it still has page breaks.

Does the DTP format even require page breaks at all? If so, where?
kdpadmin

Posts: 1,464
Registered: 01/01/70
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Nov 26, 2007 9:11 AM   in response to: collierbiz in response to: collierbiz
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Page breaks aren't required (and we strongly discourage you from retaining them in your source document).
lowontotempole

Posts: 8
Registered: 11/30/07
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Nov 30, 2007 9:45 AM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
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I've removed all hard page breaks as you suggested. However, I maintained the dotted-line page breaks that appear in the MS Word Normal view. As a result, the book contains randomly-sized spaces between chapters in the Kindle preview. If I bunch all text together, though, won't that look like a giant scroll in Kindle? In other words, for the dedication page, pages that introduce new parts, etc., it would look awkward to have these sandwiched between chapters. Usually they constitute a single page.

Is the concept of a page obsolete in Kindle? Should I think of this as one, long scroll document?

Thanks.
cub06h

Posts: 3,186
Registered: 11/23/07
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Dec 2, 2007 12:59 PM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
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Does that mean we should also get rid of page breaks between chapters? It looks more professional with the break, though I suppose four or five double-spaces would serve as well. What are others doing about this?
kdpadmin

Posts: 1,464
Registered: 01/01/70
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Dec 3, 2007 7:41 AM   in response to: lowontotempole in response to: lowontotempole
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The concept of a page is entirely obsolete in automatically reflowable text formats -- perhaps use an image to denote a chapter break?
bluehousepressp...

Posts: 4
Registered: 12/04/07
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Dec 3, 2007 7:24 PM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
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Help. What about the table contents? Should we replace page indicators with bookmarks?
kdpadmin

Posts: 1,464
Registered: 01/01/70
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Dec 4, 2007 1:21 PM   in response to: bluehousepressp... in response to: bluehousepressp...
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We suggest using file-internal links (with HTML anchors) if you want to provide links to specific sections of your content, e.g. for bookmarks.
chrisattoucans

Posts: 4
Registered: 11/29/07
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Dec 13, 2007 8:15 PM   in response to: kdpadmin in response to: kdpadmin
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My book alternates highly-formatted tabular data with paragraph-structured text (1 page tables alternate with 1-page texts). Each table+text page pair concerns a particular topic. Given that "pages are obsolete" is there any other way to prevent Kindle screen views that do not combine these two types of presentation - to avoid a screen that is half formatted data and half text?
piforiginal

Posts: 2
Registered: 01/31/08
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Jan 31, 2008 1:35 PM   in response to: collierbiz in response to: collierbiz
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Suggestion:
Since most of us do not own a Kindle, could you give some specifics about how the display is managed?

Admin has stated that page breaks are 'obsolete'. Great! Were does that leave page layout formating for widows and orphans in a paragraph? Bad typyography leads to a poor user experience when reading a book - even an electronic one.

Can a Kindle user set font family, font size, and control the display for widows and orphans. Or do authors just have to hope what a Kindle reader/user decides in a font or size just happens to come out readable?

Which font fanilies and from which Foundries can a Kindle use chose from? We non-Kindle users have no clue, but it might greatly help us decide how we lay out or works.
jstallent

Posts: 126
Registered: 12/13/07
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Jan 31, 2008 11:22 PM   in response to: piforiginal in response to: piforiginal
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Display in the Kindle is essentially the same as a basic HTML page on a website, since the formatting language of the Kindle is HTML (all uploaded files are converted into it for display). When the text is displayed on the Kindle it flows without the concept of pages because when the user increases or decreases the font size the text re-flows in the reader to fit on the screen.

The only concept of a page in Kindle is the <mbp:pagebreak /> tag, which will force the content below it to start on the next screen (or "page"), no matter what the font size is set to. These should be used before chapter headings and in other places that would benefit from such formatting.

Kindle does not handle, nor does it allow users to handle, widows and orphans. Whatever content can show up on the screen does.

The Kindle only uses one font, a serif font that looks something like Georgia.

I would say that, as a general rule, when you are formatting a book for the Kindle you should remove most of the extraneous pretty formatting that is used in print book layouts since this is more likely to clutter the pages.

Joshua Tallent
http://kindleformatting.com
randomblink

Posts: 14
Registered: 11/20/07
Re: Page Breaks needed?
Posted: Feb 29, 2008 2:03 PM   in response to: collierbiz in response to: collierbiz
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Ok...
I have read the formatting tips and trips by the kindle guys, and for those of you WITHOUT a Kindle... do whatever you can to get one.

<mbp:pagebreak />

That is the HTML you want to use to break a chapter, or section.
I understand that dtpadmin is trying to aid the kindle in trying to get all new e-books developed with the 'page' concept wiped clean from our memories... but, the best books I have read on my kindle so far have a page break before each new section / chapter.

Now before you think, well this just doesn't work... people need the concept of a page to keep reading! (or something along that path)

Forget it.

I was a non-kindle enthusiast before I got mine.

I am developing a book for a client who bought me a kindle as part of our contract and...

I
Am
Impressed
!!!!!

chuckle.

I have taken some digital books that I have and played around with formatting, I have taken the book I am developing for my client, and a few other concepts and I have tried them all out on the kindle.

You would THINK that without the page concept the reader would disconnect from the book... but they don't. At least I didn't, and I am a LONG TIME READER...

The way the page flows... the fact that with the click of your scroll button you can access link-information? Amazing. The concept of a 'Book' changes... but I think it becomes closer to what a book SHOULD be...

Anyway, just keep in mind. If you are trying to format a page, then stop what you are doing.

Format your paragraphs... Format your sections or chapters... Format your font styles...

Don't worry about font-types or sizes.
Worry about BOLD, ITALICS, UNDERLINES...

Because if I have my font settings to HUGE and you decide you want to control how my page looks? It may not look ANYTHING LIKE YOU ARE EXPECTING...

Check the web too... there are some cool Kindle Formatting sites that really do a good job of helping the newby, this site being just about the best start point for a Kindle Developer...

Anyway, that's my two cents worth...

Peace out...
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