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Thread: Double standards!


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Permlink Replies: 44 - Pages: 3 [ Previous | 1 2 3 | Next ] - Last Post: Aug 24, 2016 10:45 AM Last Post By: ashok singh
David Getling

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 7, 2016 2:16 AM   in response to: portcity456 in response to: portcity456
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No apology called for. I didn't mention the email because I did indeed assume that moderators are responsible for all removals. I thought that hitting the triangle merely alerted a moderator to examine a post. It does seem a bit strange that anybody can (temporarily) zap a post they don't like instantly.
Ralph E Vaughan

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 7, 2016 7:19 AM   in response to: David Getling in response to: David Getling
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David Getling wrote:
No apology called for. I didn't mention the email because I did indeed assume that moderators are responsible for all removals. I thought that hitting the triangle merely alerted a moderator to examine a post. It does seem a bit strange that anybody can (temporarily) zap a post they don't like instantly.

It was intended to take care of spammers, stalkers and lunatics (all in abundance) but it turned out to be a double-edged sword.
ashok singh

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 7, 2016 6:23 PM   in response to: David Getling in response to: David Getling
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Hello folks, I am from India. Now this is a prayer to Jesus Christ.

Dear lord, our father, thank you for making this world what it is. There are good guys and there are bad guys. But it is a lovely world. Lord thank you for giving us Amazon. It has helped make this world a small village where all of us authors from all over the world can interact. Lord it is natural for some of us to rant and rave when we write something bad. Lord do you remember one of my books? I had given it the title "A Temple To Jesus Christ." Remember there were 9 sales in three months in the US? It was a result of AMS adds. And the weird thing about those sales was each of them was returned the same day. Lord it made me sit back and scratch my head. But lord, remember, I did not abuse the Americans? I did not call them low down thieves. I blamed myself. There was nothing wrong with those Americans returning my books. The fault lied in my books themselves. There was something wrong with them that caused each and every American that bought it to return it. So I studied the book and found the culprit. I had given the book a holy title and had put in a lot of sex. It seems holy men bought those books, and were aghast with the sex. And bang, they pressed the return button. Lord, wasn't it natural for them to do that? Then what did i do? I did not abuse those holy Americans, I simply sliced of all the sex in that book. The result was there were four borrows the next month and four people read them in two days flat. Remember lord, I wooped with joy.

Now about India, we all know it is a poor country. We know it is nowhere near the US, the UK, and other English speaking countries in terms of wealth. Now if someone writes a bad book, the US or UK may not return his books because folks in these countries have the monetary strength to show good manners and retain a bad book, even though it was written by a charlatan wanting to make a quick buck. But they do give horrible, degrading, sales stopping, one star reviews. We Indians are monetarily weak so we are careful with our money. We simply, crudely, return the book. Lord, forgive us Indians for this folly. AMEN. (And this is for your ears only lord so don't tell anyone I told you. The British colonized us and civilized us. But not fully. We retained our Indianness. And that includes returning a bad book.)

Edited by: ashok singh on Aug 7, 2016 6:23 PM
ashok singh

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 7, 2016 9:41 PM   in response to: David Getling in response to: David Getling
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I think I know why your book got returns in India. India was once a colony of Britain. Its entire system of Government is British. No doubt, the elite schools are outright British. The education system is on the British pattern. Basically Indians think very highly of the British system of education. Any Indian worth his rupee would like to be educated in the UK. Infact Indians who can afford a foreign education make a bee line to the UK. In India itself, private English medium schools are sprouting up like grass during the monsoons. These schools advertise themselves. How? By simply saying that they are following the British pattern of education. British education for us Indians is something like the ultimate in education. And your book comes along saying the opposite. It wasn't appreciated here.

And which is better? A string of one star reviews which the Britons gave you or a quiet return with no review at all. I think I'd prefer the quiet return with no review at all. And yes, I see there are no sales of that book in the US. Does that mean the Americans also did not appreciate it?

villagoise

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 8, 2016 12:07 AM   in response to: ashok singh in response to: ashok singh
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Ashok, you are respected by the KDP community. Not only for your excellent command of the English language, but also for your principles, tolerance and courtesy to other posters.

Sadly, the same cannot be said for the OP, who posted derogatory comments about your fellow countrymen. He is now complaining about that post being removed, but whoever was responsible for deleting that post was justified in doing so.

Regards to you - Villa
David Getling

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 8, 2016 3:37 PM   in response to: ashok singh in response to: ashok singh
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And which is better? A string of one star reviews which the Britons gave you or a quiet return with no review at all. I think I'd prefer the quiet return with no review at all. And yes, I see there are no sales of that book in the US. Does that mean the Americans also did not appreciate it?

Ashok, old sport, the book you are referring to is not the one that was returned. Indeed I don't think there have been any sales of it outside the UK, which is absolutely fine since it was mainly written for a UK audience, because it's UK students who are being well and truly screwed. Yes, once upon a time the UK education system was the envy of the world, but that is non longer the case. A fair proportion, though far from all, of the private schools provide a good education, but the vast majority of state schools are complete rubbish. To say something positive, in my experience Indians value education far more than most people in the UK. Indeed, quite a few of the students I tutor are Indian. They work very hard and almost all come from the two best schools around here.
openhearted

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 9, 2016 5:47 AM   in response to: Etienne in response to: Etienne
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I was curious about what country resulted in high returns.
I have gotten quite a few recently, but they don't seem to be from India, where this thread seems to mention.
Rather, my recent returns have been from books that I have labored laboriously to translate into Portuguese.
I am very interested in Brazil, and also Spanish readers.
But, again, the high return factor seems to cross countries recently, and feels suspicious.

oh
ashok singh

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 9, 2016 9:22 AM   in response to: David Getling in response to: David Getling
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Hello David. Basically you were not 100% wrong about your returns from India. I have heard other authors crib before you. I would like to say something which I think the other authors will also read. Basically the west and the east are two distinctive cultures. One is modern and liberal and the other is orthodox and frozen in time. You have many things in the west which the east won't understand. And many things in the east which the west won't understand. These two extremes have two different ways of looking at things. Take for example burping after or during a meal. The west treats it as bad manners while the east (India) treats it as a sign that the food was good and the fellow had eaten a hearty meal. About gas in the stomach(yes i mean farting. Please don't laugh). In the west you are not allowed to blow out in public. And if you do, you generally say apologetically, "ooops, that one escaped." In the east that is not the case. If you feel that you feel like doing it, you simply lift up your bottom and go'boom.' And no one is bothered. There are only knowing understanding smiles and grins on faces. A lot of your liberal modern views do not suit the east. Like the concept of democracy. In India a huge chunk of politicians consist of rascals with a criminal background. The British(Lord Mountbatten and group), when they were handing over power to the locals told our leaders that we did not know our own people. That western liberal ideas and rules would most probably be misused here which is exactly what is happening. Like how democracy is being misused. Now Amazon comes in many years later giving buyers permission to return books. This is a very liberal rule of the west. Basically Amazon is playing on the moral values of the west. Does the east share the same moral values. I don't think so. We have moral values of a different kind. So there are chances that the book returning factor could be misused. I replied to you simply because you spoke very harshly about the whole country. India is changing very fast. Chritianity is spreading very rapidly. People are modernizing at a fast pace. So blaming the whole country irked some of us.
chinmay5

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 15, 2016 8:58 PM   in response to: ashok singh in response to: ashok singh
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Dear Ashok, you've played an EM Forsterian fart er..part (sorry that one just escaped) in explaining the irreconcilability of east and west. That will act like a glass of water for stopping the burps of the hasty eater. But can we still say that returning books is a cultural offshoot? We need statistics or algorithm from Amazon to identify the marketplace with the largest returns.
uncle1282

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 16, 2016 9:14 AM   in response to: Ralph E Vaughan in response to: Ralph E Vaughan
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Of course fair game are white, male, Christian Americans.
Ralph E Vaughan

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 16, 2016 12:35 PM   in response to: uncle1282 in response to: uncle1282
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uncle1282 wrote:
Of course fair game are white, male, Christian Americans.

Well, it's nice to be needed for something.
crazywriterlady

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Registered: 09/18/12
Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 19, 2016 9:28 AM   in response to: uncle1282 in response to: uncle1282
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uncle1282 wrote:
Of course fair game are white, male, Christian Americans.

Yeah, keep thinking that. No one comes here and complains about how white people return books, therefore all white people are thieves. Nobody said all Christians are just dirty rotten people, so don't trust them.

Good job on missing the point.
Ralph E Vaughan

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Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 19, 2016 11:02 AM   in response to: crazywriterlady in response to: crazywriterlady
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crazywriterlady wrote:
uncle1282 wrote:
Of course fair game are white, male, Christian Americans.

Yeah, keep thinking that. No one comes here and complains about how white people return books, therefore all white people are thieves. Nobody said all Christians are just dirty rotten people, so don't trust them.

Good job on missing the point.


When people say bad things about me, I don't think white, male or Christian. I just think, You can't pick your relatives.
ashok singh

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Registered: 03/03/14
Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 19, 2016 7:36 PM   in response to: crazywriterlady in response to: crazywriterlady
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I can assure you that Indians from India bare the brunt of most of the returns. But I don't see even a whimper from them in these threads. Take for example myself. I took up a western author name and got five star and four star reviews with the reviewer passing statements such as, "very different writing style." But when I reverted to my own name I started inviting one star reviews with complaints against my grammar. And the day after I replied to David Getting on this thread I got a return from the UK for a book that a Britisher had given 4 stars earlier. But we Indians don't crib. We are thankful for the few sales we get and treat returns as bad luck or that someone did not like it. But the truth is if there is a census on the most returns. India will come out with flying colors. But who's cribbing? Not us. Why? Because we Indians know that English is an acquired language for us. It is our second language and isn't our mother tongue. We Indians who are writing in English are treading on someone else's territory. We are competing with writers who were born into the language and taught the language to people who were born into the language. Now that's one hell of a challenge. A herculean task. Something like David fighting a Goliath. We are trying to drop the Goliaths with our tiny slings. Most of us Indians were taught the language but we don't interact with our families and neighbors in English. We weren't born into the language like the west. We simply write in English. So subconsciously we know that the western writers quality (skills) of writing will be better than ours since they all live in Englishsthan (land of the English) and were born into the language. It is natural that some of them won't appreciate the writing of someone who acquired the language. So I have noticed India does not complain about returns. But I can assure you we bare the brunt of returns.

Edited by: ashok singh on Aug 19, 2016 7:41 PM

Edited by: ashok singh on Aug 19, 2016 7:53 PM

Edited by: ashok singh on Aug 19, 2016 7:55 PM
chinmay5

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Registered: 09/22/10
Re: Double standards!
Posted: Aug 19, 2016 8:10 PM   in response to: ashok singh in response to: ashok singh
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The Indian writer's predicament is very well summed up. I also take each return with same kind of equanimity that you've mentioned.
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