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Thread: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.


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Dave Casey

Posts: 310
Registered: 03/03/16
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 4:00 PM   in response to: Melinda Clayton in response to: Melinda Clayton
 
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Melinda Clayton wrote:
I'm kind of amazed at how often this comes up. Somewhere out there, on some discussion board or other, someone has whipped people into a frenzy believing Amazon is somehow ripping them off because there are used books for sale.

Well, he cited The Society of Authors as his source, so that should tell us everything we need to know. They call themselves a trade union for writers and he wants us to check their website to find out more. Of course, to check their website, or more specifically, the forums on that site, you will need to join their organization and pay their annual fee. Need I say more?
booknookbiz

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Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 5:24 PM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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jakers3 wrote:
Not if your book is published by create space.
Amazon can sell your books as used and you don't get a royalty.
If you take your book off the market they can still sell it and you don't get paid.
Check out- the sciety of authors website for more info on this.
J

Jakers:

I suspect you're trolling, but, just in case you aren't: I have about 4,000 books in my print book collection. Virtually all of those are trade-pubbed--so, put out by Random House, Scribner, etc. If I take those to the used bookstore, and sell them, do you think that Abe's Used BookStore sends you a royalty?

....waits for it....

NO, they do NOT. Authors are not now, nor have they ever been, paid a royalty on used books. But then again, as someone else said, Ford doesn't get a royalty or commission or anything else, when you sell your used Ford Focus. If you resell Haute clothing, on a consignment site, Kate Spade doesn't get a percentage of the sale price. If you sell goods on eBay, do you send a percentage of the price to the original maker? NO.

This is nothing new. You are simply being misinformed and USED, being whipped into a frenzy by some dips**ts on that site. IGNORE THEM. Ask your fellow professional authors, here, and LISTEN.

Hitch
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jakers3

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Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 3:23 AM   in response to: Dave Casey in response to: Dave Casey
 
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it appears none of you understood what I was trying to say.
Here is the Society of Authors statement.

Amazon has said that the main ‘buy’ button on any book listing could, in future, be ‘won’ by a second-hand seller so that it links to their copy rather than one sold by the publisher. Authors do not receive royalties on books bought in this way.

When challenged in the US, Amazon said ‘our bookstore now works like the rest of Amazon, where third party sellers compete with Amazon for the sale of new items.’

The SoA joins the Authors Guild of America in expressing our concerns that traditional sales – the ones that pay authors a royalty – would be heavily undermined by such a change, significantly damaging the incomes of publishers, booksellers and authors.

Keeping backlist titles in print may become impractical for many, further diminishing authors’ earnings, and future publications may become unviable, reducing authors’ opportunities.

It is our view that Amazon’s ebook market dominance gives them too much influence over the pricing of books already. As of now we will be campaigning to persuade them to drop this change, and if they don’t then authors will be looking to their publishers to take firm action.

jakers3

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Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 3:30 AM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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Here is the rest of the Society of Authors statement.
And by the way,, I am a professional author with forty-eight books on Amazon etc.
J

Publishers and ‘Special’ Sales

For a second-hand seller to ‘win’ the right to be listed as the primary seller, the copies they sell have to be in pristine condition. These sellers buy such copies in bulk from publishers at very high discounts, usually authorised when the author signs a contract with clauses like ‘book club and similar’, ‘co-edition’, ‘mail order’, ‘supermarket’, or ‘non-traditional retail outlets’.

Publishers often claim that special sales don’t directly compete with conventional sales. Whether or not one subscribes to that view, Amazon’s proposed change would put them in direct competition. It is our view that, for the sake of individuals and the publishing industry as a whole, publishers should give the author a right to veto any deal that offers an ultra-high discount on copies of their book.

Edited by: jakers3 on Jul 15, 2017 3:30 AM
L M Gabriel

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Registered: 08/22/13
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 6:10 AM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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This is the third thread I have read in as many days about third party sellers. These people offer books for sale that they do not have in stock. In order to sell them they have to either buy them second hand which at worst will increase your visibility and presence without giving you a royalty. If there are no second hand books available they will order them from POD outlets and sell new as used. When that happens, you will get a royalty UNLESS you have signed a contract for them to print their own in which case you would KNOW you had. If you have given away hundreds of your books away to get reviews you might lose out because you don't get royalties twice, otherwise you won't lose anything. I just wish people would stop peddling scare stories to newbies on here. It isn't fair, in fact it is downright wrong, to try and convince newbies that their failure to sell books is down to being cheated in some way.
Joseph M Erhardt

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Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 6:16 AM   in response to: L M Gabriel in response to: L M Gabriel
 
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L M Gabriel wrote:
This is the third thread I have read in as many days ...

Seriously. By the way, I can't see my books on my Bookshelf any longer*, and my pre-ordered book won't let me update the text file even though it's still 72.4 hours from publication date! (I've gotten to the point where I don't even read, much less respond to, pre-order issues.)

Some days I'm in a better mood than others ... :)

*though I'll admit I've seen a weird variant of this, now twice, from folks whose accounts are actually years old, and I'm not sure how that could occur.

Edited by: Joseph M Erhardt on Jul 15, 2017 6:19 AM
L M Gabriel

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Registered: 08/22/13
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 6:23 AM   in response to: Joseph M Erhardt in response to: Joseph M Erhardt
 
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Seriously. Me too Joseph... the mood I mean. Oh well, back to watching Wimbledon. :)
Melinda Clayton

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Registered: 06/11/13
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 7:04 AM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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We understand exactly what you're trying to say, because this topic has come up dozens of times in the past couple of months. If you'd read the blog post I pasted in my first response to you, you'd see that we understand. I'll paste it again: http://www.indiesunlimited.com/2017/06/20/help-someone-else-is-selling-my-book/

It's similar to the response I left on the article to which you linked:

"This article is a misrepresentation of the issue. Under the first sale doctrine, third party sellers are allowed to sell used books (and DVDs, movies, etc.). Self-published authors: If a third party seller is selling your book, it's one that was already purchased from you - meaning you've already received royalties for it - or one the third party seller will have to purchase from you before they can sell it - at which time you will receive royalties. Or, as is stated in the article, the author signed a contract that allows the publisher to sell their books at huge discounts. If you signed to approve it, you can't really get upset when it happens.

Authors all over the internet are in panic mode due to misrepresentations such as this. I'd encourage authors to do some research before panicking. One author bragged of sending DMCA notices to Amazon, which resulted in the third party seller being suspended while Amazon investigated. That's terribly bad form. It's perfectly legal for third party sellers to sell used books.

The only exceptions to this would be if 1) you sent out paperback review copies that the recipient decided to sell on Amazon (or eBay), or 2) you have remaindered copies out there. Remaindered copies are copies that were stocked on store shelves and didn't sell. Your publisher either instructed those books be returned to the publisher, or destroyed. Some sneaky criminal might decide to sell them on Amazon instead.

This could impact big, as in NY Big 5 publishers and authors to some extent, but small presses and self-published authors don't tend to send paperbacks for review, and unfortunately also don't tend to have an overabundance of books on brick-and-mortar bookstore shelves.

Deep breath. We'll be okay."

End of response

One other exception I discussed in my own post: this can happen if you signed up for it under CreateSpace's Expanded Distribution. One of the options under there allows bookstores to order your books at wholesale prices and resell them at whatever price they choose.

Seriously, I find that no matter how many times and in how many ways it's explained, people seem to want to believe Amazon is somehow ripping them off.

Edited by: Melinda Clayton on Jul 15, 2017 7:05 AM
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 7:06 AM   in response to: Joseph M Erhardt in response to: Joseph M Erhardt
 
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Joseph M Erhardt wrote:
L M Gabriel wrote:
This is the third thread I have read in as many days ...

Seriously. By the way, I can't see my books on my Bookshelf any longer*, and my pre-ordered book won't let me update the text file even though it's still 72.4 hours from publication date! (I've gotten to the point where I don't even read, much less respond to, pre-order issues.)

Some days I'm in a better mood than others ... :)

*though I'll admit I've seen a weird variant of this, now twice, from folks whose accounts are actually years old, and I'm not sure how that could occur.

Edited by: Joseph M Erhardt on Jul 15, 2017 6:19 AM

Yes, I have noticed that the forum seems increasingly taken over by nutters like J3 and one-post wonders who have not looked at a single help page. I'm not sure why they are convinced there are thousands of "used" copies of books they constantly complain aren't selling in any great numbers.

"Used" is not always the same thing as "pre-owned" in the book trade. Retailers who list POD books no more have physical copies on hand than do Amazon. Ordering from Amazon or any other retailer involves the same process of a copy being requested, printed and shipped. The difference is that Amazon extends their liberal return policy to POD books while most retailers sell them "as is." That is the difference between others claiming "used" and Amazon saying nothing.

I'm ready to add trolling threads like this one to all the other clueless threads -- where are my books, why isn't my book for sale in wherever, why is my pre-order locked, why haven't I been paid for the book I sold yesterday, why hasn't my 18-page romance\crime\sci-fi epic made me a Kindle millionaire, why can't KDP change everything to accommodate me? The problem with this particular thread is that newbies won't recognise a troll\shiel when they see one, won't recognise a money-grubbing organisation, and will take a trip down the rabbit hole, ending up more confused and frustrated than they already are.

Heading off to the pub. 🍺

jm14

Posts: 2,617
Registered: 10/06/11
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 7:34 AM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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jakers3 wrote:
And by the way,, I am a professional author with forty-eight books on Amazon etc.

You still don't know what you're talking about.

(And by the way, anyone can put up 48 books - or 480 - on KDP. That means nothing.)
booknookbiz

Posts: 4,000
Registered: 03/04/10
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 16, 2017 5:18 PM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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jakers3 wrote:
Here is the rest of the Society of Authors statement.
And by the way,, I am a professional author with forty-eight books on Amazon etc.
J

Publishers and ‘Special’ Sales

For a second-hand seller to ‘win’ the right to be listed as the primary seller, the copies they sell have to be in pristine condition. These sellers buy such copies in bulk from publishers at very high discounts, usually authorised when the author signs a contract with clauses like ‘book club and similar’, ‘co-edition’, ‘mail order’, ‘supermarket’, or ‘non-traditional retail outlets’.

Publishers often claim that special sales don’t directly compete with conventional sales. Whether or not one subscribes to that view, Amazon’s proposed change would put them in direct competition. It is our view that, for the sake of individuals and the publishing industry as a whole, publishers should give the author a right to veto any deal that offers an ultra-high discount on copies of their book.

Edited by: jakers3 on Jul 15, 2017 3:30 AM


OK, Jakers:

So, let's say that you and Sons of Anarchy there are right.

Where are the copies they are selling coming from? What, they took your book and are copying it on their HP printer, at home? NO. They're buying those books from you, just as they always have. Which means what? It means that you get the same royalty you would have gotten if Suzie Q bought the book from you directly via Createspace.

We all understand exactly what you're saying, and exactly what sort of shite SOA is trying to stir up, for NO viable reason. No used anything, sold anywhere, ever, has resulted in royalties paid to the original artist. Not old albums, not DVDs, not CDs, not videos...never. So, the 2nd-hand sellers/used sellers, etc., still have to get the book from SOMEWHERE, and that somewhere is you, boyo. Thus, the royalty.

(I"m only explaining this again, for the benefit of those that come later. HOPEFULLY, they'll search.)

Hitch
We produce eBooks
An Amazon Professional Conversion Service : http://amzn.to/29pWZSg
www.Booknook.Biz
Notjohn

Posts: 22,927
Registered: 02/27/13
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 17, 2017 4:01 AM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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For a second-hand seller to ‘win’ the right to be listed as the primary seller, the copies they sell have to be in pristine condition. These sellers buy such copies in bulk from publishers at very high discounts, usually authorised when the author signs a contract with clauses like ‘book club and similar’, ‘co-edition’, ‘mail order’, ‘supermarket’, or ‘non-traditional retail outlets’.

The "Society of Authors" (which I've never heard of) is quite right, of course, but I think you have drawn the wrong conclusion. Not only do publishers (and I mean real publishers, not those of us publishing our own wares) sell books in quantity, but the royalty they pay is quite different. Whereas I might get 15 percent OF THE RETAIL PRICE on the sale of a book, I only would get 10 percent OF NET in a quantity sale. So let's say a club of US Marine veterans wants to buy 100 copies of my biography of Brute Krulak, and Penguin says sure, that'll be $10 a copy, thanks a lot. So I get a dollar instead of $4.49 (15 percent of $29.95).

And it gets worse! Penguin now decides that the market doesn't merit hanging on to my book any longer, so they offer it up wholesale for a dollar a copy. (I have bought my own remaindered books for a dollar a copy.) Now my "royalty" is ten cents.

That what the "Society" is talking about. They're not talking about these weird Marketplace sellers offering up "used" copies of CreateSpace books.

(The next thing I do this morning, BTW, is walk out to the mailbox and drop a copy of that dollar-a-copy book -- it wasn't from Penguin, and it's not about General Krulak -- into the mail. I sold it for $7.95, Amazon gave me a shipping allowance of $3.99, and charged me a $4.58 fee. Media Mail cost $2.63. My net is $4.73, less the dollar I paid for the book. I wouldn't do this as a business proposition, even though I go to the mailbox anyhow, to pick up my copy of the Wall Street Journal, but I like it that my books get out there.... And have you noticed that the only party that made money on the transaction is Jeff Bezos, who never had to touch the book?)

Good luck! -- NJ

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http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com
Emily Veinglory

Posts: 3,370
Registered: 04/25/13
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 17, 2017 8:15 AM   in response to: Notjohn in response to: Notjohn
 
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SOA are talking about a real (but not recent) issue, specifically that a second hand seller might get top spot on the sales button. I think that is somewhat undesirable from the point of view of the author. But OP has almost completely understood what they were trying to convey.
Notjohn

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Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Jul 17, 2017 12:39 PM   in response to: Emily Veinglory in response to: Emily Veinglory
 
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Then there is something very odd about the statement that "These sellers buy such copies in bulk from publishers at very high discounts,"

Either that, or something very odd about the OP's conclusions from that statement.

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog:
http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com
carol colbert

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Registered: 08/02/15
Re: What do you think of Used copies of your books being sold by amazon.
Posted: Nov 3, 2017 6:01 AM   in response to: jakers3 in response to: jakers3
 
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I have never received one penny for these 'used' books, they are printed one at a time when you order so what are these 'used' books coming from? I NEVER got paid from anyone for them. WHAT IS GOING ON?
Legend
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