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Thread: Self-publishing is dead


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Permlink Replies: 88 - Pages: 6 [ 1 2 3 4 5 | Next ] - Last Post: Nov 19, 2017 4:03 PM Last Post By: Morgan Carlson
Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 4:46 PM
 
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I think the market is too saturated and there is no money to be made in self-publishing. This is because there is no more guardian that safeguards the number of books being published every year. Think of it as supply and demand. If you disagree with me, you are welcome to tell me why you think I am wrong. Seeing is believing so if you disagree with me you are welcome to share your sales numbers.
Salamander Mall...

Posts: 327
Registered: 10/16/17
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 4:57 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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The hundreds of self publishers who support themselves by writing would disagree with you, though you probably have the full support of the millions who think slapping any old thing on Amazon is a sure way to become a Kindle Millionaire. Kids books on Kindle, always a hard sell if you're not a household name, almost a closed shop. Being in the 250K-400K range for ratings is not unrespectable for kid books, but hardly "bestselling."

As far as sharing, no thanks. I've always maintained that anyone who posts links to their books in this forum is either a fool or a masochist. I have never seen any results that would make me think differently.
Diana Persaud

Posts: 2,545
Registered: 10/07/13
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 5:06 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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Tomi wrote:
I think the market is too saturated and there is no money to be made in self-publishing. This is because there is no more guardian that safeguards the number of books being published every year. Think of it as supply and demand. If you disagree with me, you are welcome to tell me why you think I am wrong. Seeing is believing so if you disagree with me you are welcome to share your sales numbers.

I am the author of some fantastic bestselling children's book and more:

The ABC Exercise <http://amzn.to/2gD9yQe>
The Purple Dancing Tiger <http://amzn.to/2gEcBaT>
The Three Noble Sheep <http://amzn.to/2i5B7SG>

Best,
Doctor Tomi


I disagree that there is no money to be made. I'm not making a living yet. But I am making money by self publishing. A heck of a lot more than if I were trad published. Since they wouldn't publish my books, it would be a big fat $0. But self publishing gives me a small piece of the pie-yet it's much bigger than I would get from a traditional publisher PLUS I get to retain my rights.

Ah the 'guardians of great literature' fallacy. Nope. Great books have been turned away by trad publishing because they met their quota for that genre. The 'guardians of great literature' have no idea of what will sell or not. (Have you seen what they have been publishing lately? The adult coloring books stage should be proof enough that they are not guardians of great literature.) But when you limit what people have access to read, then of course you're going to get some sales.

Anyway, I welcome the flood of aspiring authors. It's the fake books and botting which creates an artificial marketplace that I can't stand.
Justin Sampson

Posts: 59
Registered: 11/29/15
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 5:11 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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Before Mrs. Evans wades in here and delivers swift e-justice with a virtual backhand through your monitor, I shall simply say, if self publishing is dead, then I hope it stays dead and gets deader.

That being said, I take not your bait to post sales. Because you will have no way to verify them because I will never share the books here. I think here is a shark-pool at best at times.

There could be millions of books, and they will be looked over by millions of people and somehow people will find the ones they want to read. I think Zon's algorithm is good at that. Years ago when I only had David Weber to look at for space fleet sci fi books, I now have tons more to look for. Thanks to self-publishing.

So love dead self publishing.
beachgardener

Posts: 372
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 5:34 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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Tomi wrote:
I think the market is too saturated and there is no money to be made in self-publishing. This is because there is no more guardian that safeguards the number of books being published every year. Think of it as supply and demand. If you disagree with me, you are welcome to tell me why you think I am wrong. Seeing is believing so if you disagree with me you are welcome to share your sales numbers.

I am the author of some fantastic bestselling children's book and more:

The ABC Exercise <http://amzn.to/2gD9yQe>
The Purple Dancing Tiger <http://amzn.to/2gEcBaT>
The Three Noble Sheep <http://amzn.to/2i5B7SG>

Best,
Doctor Tomi


Don't like the pool? Get out and go home. This is a forum to help and encourage writers, spread your gloom and doom elsewhere, I don't buy it. As for sharing my books, not happening. I will tell everyone I meet face to face that is the least bit interest that I am a writer and sell them a book. I will not divulge my name or my books on a site whose guidelines suggest otherwise.
I may be a rosy optimist but I am not a gullible fool. My books sell moderately and I don't feel the need to prove it to anyone.. B
Ned Kelly

Posts: 1,096
Registered: 09/05/15
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 6:16 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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Ah yes...your books are f...ing fantastic.

I think I'll go back to pulling wings off butterflies seeing that the competition is so brilliant...

Cheers

Ned
booknookbiz

Posts: 4,003
Registered: 03/04/10
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 6:45 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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Tomi wrote:
I think the market is too saturated and there is no money to be made in self-publishing. This is because there is no more guardian that safeguards the number of books being published every year. Think of it as supply and demand. If you disagree with me, you are welcome to tell me why you think I am wrong. Seeing is believing so if you disagree with me you are welcome to share your sales numbers.

I am the author of some fantastic bestselling children's book and more:

The ABC Exercise <http://amzn.to/2gD9yQe>
The Purple Dancing Tiger <http://amzn.to/2gEcBaT>
The Three Noble Sheep <http://amzn.to/2i5B7SG>

Best,
Doctor Tomi


Well, Tomi, my friend:

Unfortunately, if you want to talk about making money, you picked a bad way to go about it. I don't mean self-publishing, in general--although that's also a dumb way to try to Get Rich Quick--but children's books. They sell the fewest numbers of pretty much any category, short of poetry and chapbooks.

A "hit" children's book--not a runaway best seller, but a book that makes publishers happy with its sales--will sell 500 copies, in its lifetime. The vast majority of kids' books do not "earn out," which means they never earn back the costs of producing it and bringing it to market. 500 copies sold makes a VERY successful kids' book. If you sell 500 copies of your books, will that even cover your costs for illustration? Given that the average kids' book takes $3500-$7,000 to illustrate, 500 copies won't, normally cover the costs JUST for the illustrator, never mind layout, the author, printing, yadda, yadda yadda.

Want real layout for an illustrated kids' book? That typically starts at $5K and goes up from there. And no--that doesn't include the illos.

Lots of people--note, I didn't say, authors--leap into kids' books because they think that they'll be easy. I can't tell you how many kids' books I've seen, in the last decade, and I can tell you, of all of them, I've seen one--ONE series--that had any real promise at ALL. The rest are simply awful. No matter how fabulously you illustrate a book, a crappy story is still a crappy story. Kids don't want infantile stories or bad stories--in some ways, they are far more critical than adult readers. (n.b.: before you get your nose out of joint, I am NOT saying that your books are crappy. They are so short, there's no LITB, so...no idea if they are, or aren't. But if I were you, that ABC book? I'd fix the distorted images in that cover, if I were you.)

Kids' books are right up there with poetry, for non-earners. If you want to try to write for actual money, well, you're going to need to either be the MOST brilliant kids' book author, ever--on par with Dr. Seuss, I mean--or you need to write adult fiction. I don't mean P orno; I mean just regular old niche fiction books--mysteries, romances, men's adventure, and so on.

FWIW, I won't disclose what I earn, in my business, (which isn't publishing) but rest assured, I have clients earning $10-$12K per month, as self-publishers. PERIOD. They got started as published authors in the age of Kindle, and they continue to publish and sell. Even some of our less-successful authors are paying their mortgages, or this or that. Not all--don't get me wrong. But those who work hard, perfect their craft, turn out solid books with good writing (and good formatting!)...they do reasonably well, and some go gangbusters. (n.b.: I do know of people who are making obscene amounts, but they're not my clients, so I haven't seen it with my own eyes, ergo, I'm not reporting it. I'm limiting figures to what I factually know of my own knowledge and verification.)

Hitch
We produce eBooks
An Amazon Professional Conversion Service : http://amzn.to/29pWZSg
www.Booknook.Biz

Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 6:46 PM   in response to: Ned Kelly in response to: Ned Kelly
 
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Ned,

Exactly why I injected the books. So many self-published authors think so and brilliantly portray their books as fantastic... I get the sarcasm. However, your reply and others have not convinced me that self-publishing is not dead.
Jonathan B

Posts: 4,491
Registered: 10/23/12
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 6:55 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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There are millions and millions to be made. The key is getting your slice of the pie. I'll be attending a conference next weekend where six of the speakers make seven figures a year and a good portion of the others make six figures--and all of these are indies.

You can believe what you want even if it flies in the face of facts.
Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 6:58 PM   in response to: Justin Sampson in response to: Justin Sampson
 
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Thanks for your response. I am sure you know that the average monthly checks for authors who do moderately well are around $100/month... I like to base things on fact not on he said, she said.
Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 7:06 PM   in response to: booknookbiz in response to: booknookbiz
 
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"Kids do not want infantile stories or bad stories--in some ways, they are far more critical than adult readers." I disagree with this statement. Kids are not more critical than adults. Remember adults are the ones that are going to buy the books for their kids, not the kids. Anyways thank for the sarcasm, do you have any books published? Just posting a link to nowhere is not helpful.
STEPHEN W BENNETT

Posts: 310
Registered: 10/12/12
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 7:09 PM   in response to: Tomi in response to: Tomi
 
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Tomi wrote:
I think the market is too saturated and there is no money to be made in self-publishing. This is because there is no more guardian that safeguards the number of books being published every year. Think of it as supply and demand. If you disagree with me, you are welcome to tell me why you think I am wrong. Seeing is believing so if you disagree with me you are welcome to share your sales numbers.

Nope, not for me. Perhaps you should try other genera. I'm earning a decent royalty based living (although I don't need books to live well). This year my sales and KU reads are expected to be only ~60 or 65% of that of each of the previous two years. I'm unlikely to hit $100K this year, but I'll be well up there in five figures by the end of December. If my next book, coming in several weeks, does really well (never a sure thing), I might get closer to $100K. That's a livable wage just from royalties, all entirely from the Amazon connected markets. If it all goes away, I had a good run for over five years, and writing isn't all I have for income, so I can afford to be complacent. I think I can wait out the smoothing of the book market when bad writers stop wasting months producing work that never sells.

I could be wrong about bad writing finally dwindling in volume. Bad politics is still on the increase.
Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 7:19 PM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
 
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Thanks for your input, but you missed the point of why the book links were posted. See below for why they were posted. However, one thing that you mentioned that is striking is that most books that do well are because the author is a household name. Aren't you just agreeing to self-publishing being dead? I respect authors that are writing and working on their craft, but the saturation of the indie market is by far a downfall.
Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 7:22 PM   in response to: Jonathan B in response to: Jonathan B
 
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I would like more info about the conference. The people that you mentioned making 7 figures, do they have names?
Tomi

Posts: 21
Registered: 10/21/16
Re: Self-publishing is dead
Posted: Oct 25, 2017 7:32 PM   in response to: STEPHEN W BENNETT in response to: STEPHEN W BENNETT
 
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Thanks for your comment. Very on point and with numbers. You may be the anomaly or the top 1% of self-published authors.
Legend
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