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beachgardener

Posts: 389
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 17, 2017 9:58 PM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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Patrick A. Smith wrote:

I've always despised pdf manuals etc. Because I've never seen one with an active table of contents! I'm thinking maybe I can save a word doc as pdf, or do I save an html as a pdf ?

Edited by: Patrick A. Smith on Nov 17, 2017 4:02 PM


Yes, you can save a word doc as a pdf they give you all sorts of alternative if you go to save as. As to html, never been there or done that. Check out the save as and see I guess. I am always amazed at the new things I find when I go exploring.
Break a leg with the new book. B
,
Notjohn

Posts: 23,261
Registered: 02/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 18, 2017 3:15 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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Formatting for print is easier but a whole lot fussier than for digital. You want a perfect PDF file, sized for paperback, with margins set, paginated correctly, with words hyphenated as needed (but not excessively -- one or two a page), and no chapters ending in orphaned lines at the top of a page. Study some hardcover books in your library (they're formatted more carefully than many paperbacks) so you get the hang of it.

The CreateSpace forum is the best place to ask for advice.

I finish writing my books in Word, and I rough out the paperback layout there. But I open the Word doc in OpenOffice Writer to finish up. I don't publish a book a month, so the formatting isn't something ingrained in muscle memory, and I find OOW's menu commands more intuitive than Word's with all its sub-menus. Plus OOW does a better job outputting the PDF -- just accept the defaults, and you're good to go.

If you're really brave, you might venture into IngramSpark. If CreateSpace bites the dust, it will be the go-to POD printer.

My Guide has a chapter devoted to print.

(Don't trust KDP to publish a print edition. Don't trust CreateSpace to publish an ebook.)

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog:
http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,810
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 18, 2017 10:01 AM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
 
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beachgardener wrote:
Patrick A. Smith wrote:

I've always despised pdf manuals etc. Because I've never seen one with an active table of contents! I'm thinking maybe I can save a word doc as pdf, or do I save an html as a pdf ?

Edited by: Patrick A. Smith on Nov 17, 2017 4:02 PM

Yes, you can save a word doc as a pdf they give you all sorts of alternative if you go to save as. As to html, never been there or done that. Check out the save as and see I guess. I am always amazed at the new things I find when I go exploring.


Thanks
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,810
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 18, 2017 10:05 AM   in response to: Notjohn in response to: Notjohn
 
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Notjohn wrote:
Formatting for print is easier but a whole lot fussier than for digital. You want a perfect PDF file, sized for paperback, with margins set, paginated correctly, with words hyphenated as needed (but not excessively -- one or two a page), and no chapters ending in orphaned lines at the top of a page. Study some hardcover books in your library (they're formatted more carefully than many paperbacks) so you get the hang of it.

The CreateSpace forum is the best place to ask for advice.

I finish writing my books in Word, and I rough out the paperback layout there. But I open the Word doc in OpenOffice Writer to finish up. I don't publish a book a month, so the formatting isn't something ingrained in muscle memory, and I find OOW's menu commands more intuitive than Word's with all its sub-menus. Plus OOW does a better job outputting the PDF -- just accept the defaults, and you're good to go.

Thanks. It sounds say more complicated than an ebook. In Ms word I never have to set margins or any of that I simply use styles page breaks and it comes out fine

My Guide has a chapter devoted to print.

I looked at your guide yesterday and I may just get it when the time comes to print a book!

MR R J LAIDLER

Posts: 819
Registered: 09/26/16
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 19, 2017 4:11 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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{quote:title=Patrick A. Smith wrote:}
Thanks. It sounds say more complicated than an ebook. In Ms word I never have to set margins or any of that I simply use styles page breaks and it comes out fine

It is a bit more complicated because with an ebook you don't have to worry about the physical size of the book - an ebook is meant to be fluid and to be read on screens of different sizes and in different sizes of font. With a paperback you have to decide on how big the margins are and in particular the size of the gutter, which is the margin on the inside of each page next to the spine. With a book with just a few pages the gutter could be more or less the same size as the margin on the outside of the page but if the book has a lot of pages the gutter might be twice the size of the outside margin.

You also need to think about page numbering. A typical method is to have the page numbers in opposite corners so if you open the book the page number of the page on your right will be in the bottom righthand corner but on the page opposite it the page number is in the bottom lefthand corner. You can achieve this using mirrored footers though no doubt there may be other methods. Mirroring is also how you can achieve the gutter, mentioned above, swapping from one side of the page to the other.

Then there is the issue of having different numbering systems. For example, using small case Roman numerals for the first few pages before switching to conventional numbering - and if you do should it start at number 1? Left to the defaults you might find the numbering will start a 7 or 8 or whatever actual physical number the page is in the book. To achieve these effects you can use different sections and you would probably want to have at least two. One without page numbers for the title page etc then ones with page numbers for the rest of the book.

Oh, and then there is the vexed issue of what font to use. :) With an ebook you can generally and should ignore this but not so with a paperback. And whatever font you do choose check you have the rights to use it. Just because your copy of Word has millions of fonts it doesn't mean you have the right to reuse them in a printed book. :)
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,810
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 19, 2017 6:33 PM   in response to: MR R J LAIDLER in response to: MR R J LAIDLER
 
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MR R J LAIDLER wrote:
{quote:title=Patrick A. Smith wrote:}
Thanks. It sounds say more complicated than an ebook. In Ms word I never have to set margins or any of that I simply use styles page breaks and it comes out fine

It is a bit more complicated because with an ebook you don't have to worry about the physical size of the book - an ebook is meant to be fluid and to be read on screens of different sizes and in different sizes of font. With a paperback you have to decide on how big the margins are and in particular the size of the gutter, which is the margin on the inside of each page next to the spine. With a book with just a few pages the gutter could be more or less the same size as the margin on the outside of the page but if the book has a lot of pages the gutter might be twice the size of the outside margin.

You also need to think about page numbering. A typical method is to have the page numbers in opposite corners so if you open the book the page number of the page on your right will be in the bottom righthand corner but on the page opposite it the page number is in the bottom lefthand corner. You can achieve this using mirrored footers though no doubt there may be other methods. Mirroring is also how you can achieve the gutter, mentioned above, swapping from one side of the page to the other.

Then there is the issue of having different numbering systems. For example, using small case Roman numerals for the first few pages before switching to conventional numbering - and if you do should it start at number 1? Left to the defaults you might find the numbering will start a 7 or 8 or whatever actual physical number the page is in the book. To achieve these effects you can use different sections and you would probably want to have at least two. One without page numbers for the title page etc then ones with page numbers for the rest of the book.

Oh, and then there is the vexed issue of what font to use. :) With an ebook you can generally and should ignore this but not so with a paperback. And whatever font you do choose check you have the rights to use it. Just because your copy of Word has millions of fonts it doesn't mean you have the right to reuse them in a printed book. :)


Wow! I can say that backwards... watch... wow!

I seriously thank you for giving me all this information. In lieu of all I've learned from your post I think I will not mess around with print books! After all most people have a computer or a Kindle or Android or something they can read an e-book on. Even on a PC one can get a Kindle app and read it so it's not worth me messing with print books. Once again thank you very much!
MR R J LAIDLER

Posts: 819
Registered: 09/26/16
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 1:59 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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It depends on your book I think. Mine is a non-fiction travel book and at the moment I am selling twice as many paperbacks as ebooks - but from what I've read on here that is not typical. For fiction you are probably right sticking with ebooks but producing a paperback isn't impossible. Even I did it - with a bit (a lot!) of help from the folk on here. :)
Notjohn

Posts: 23,261
Registered: 02/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 2:35 AM   in response to: MR R J LAIDLER in response to: MR R J LAIDLER
 
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If you sell so many paperbacks, why are you not selling on Barnes & Noble? (And others.)

@Patrick: ever so much easier on CreateSpace. Just follow the yellow brick road, aka Guided.

(Don't trust KDP to publish a print edition. Don't trust CreateSpace to publish an ebook.)

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog:
http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com
MR R J LAIDLER

Posts: 819
Registered: 09/26/16
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 3:55 AM   in response to: Notjohn in response to: Notjohn
 
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Notjohn wrote:
If you sell so many paperbacks, why are you not selling on Barnes & Noble? (And others.)

@Patrick: ever so much easier on CreateSpace. Just follow the yellow brick road, aka Guided.

(Don't trust KDP to publish a print edition. Don't trust CreateSpace to publish an ebook.)

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog: http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com

I've only ever sold one copy in the US. :) 99.9% of sales are in the UK with a few elsewhere in Europe. The subject matter is very specific to the UK. :)
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,810
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 8:38 AM   in response to: Notjohn in response to: Notjohn
 
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Notjohn wrote:
If you sell so many paperbacks, why are you not selling on Barnes & Noble? (And others.)

@Patrick: ever so much easier on CreateSpace. Just follow the yellow brick road, aka Guided.

(Don't trust KDP to publish a print edition. Don't trust CreateSpace to publish an ebook.)

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog: http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com


What about the fonts? How do I know if I'm a allowed to use certain ones or what???
Notjohn

Posts: 23,261
Registered: 02/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 8:48 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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I use 12 point Georgia on a 120% line spacing (11 point if the book is longer than 300 pages) and recommend it highly.

All this is covered in the last chapter of my Guide.

(Don't trust KDP to publish a print edition. Don't trust CreateSpace to publish an ebook.)

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog:
http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com
MR R J LAIDLER

Posts: 819
Registered: 09/26/16
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 8:58 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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If you use OpenOffice Writer I'm fairly sure its fonts can all be used. I used Georgia for the text and Myriad Pro for chapter headings. There is a sort of convention to use serif fonts for the text and sans-serif for chapter headings. But of course rules are meant to be broken so use what you want but it would be best to look at some professionally printed books first.
There is another way to tackle this. When you create a PDF in Writer you have the option to embed the fonts. This is what you are supposed to do but if you don't Amazon will substitute its own - well at least it does in KDP Print, CreatesSpace might do the same but I can't vouch for that. Perhaps someone else can. The substitute fonts might be indistinguishable from the ones you chose so if it looks acceptable then you're good to go, as they say. :)
Notjohn

Posts: 23,261
Registered: 02/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Nov 20, 2017 4:12 PM   in response to: MR R J LAIDLER in response to: MR R J LAIDLER
 
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it would be best to look at some professionally printed books firs

A radical idea, but it might catch on!

(OpenOffice Writer embeds the font by default. In fact, the great thing about OOW is that accepting the default creates just the PDF that's needed.)

(Don't trust KDP to publish a print edition. Don't trust CreateSpace to publish an ebook.)

Good luck! -- NJ

Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting

The blog:
http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,810
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Dec 1, 2017 9:07 PM   in response to: Notjohn in response to: Notjohn
 
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Notjohn wrote:
Formatting for print is easier but a whole lot fussier than for digital. You want a perfect PDF file, sized for paperback, with margins set, paginated correctly, with words hyphenated as needed (but not excessively -- one or two a page), and no chapters ending in orphaned lines at the top of a page. Study some hardcover books in your library (they're formatted more carefully than many paperbacks) so you get the hang of it.

The CreateSpace forum is the best place to ask for advice.

I finish writing my books in Word, and I rough out the paperback layout there. But I open the Word doc in OpenOffice Writer to finish up. I don't publish a book a month, so the formatting isn't something ingrained in muscle memory, and I find OOW's menu commands more intuitive than Word's with all its sub-menus. Plus OOW does a better job outputting the PDF -- just accept the defaults, and you're good to go.

If you're really brave, you might venture into IngramSpark. If CreateSpace bites the dust, it will be the go-to POD printer.

My Guide has a chapter devoted to print.

ill probably get your book when I get ready to print. What does 00W have that you like better?

MR R J LAIDLER

Posts: 819
Registered: 09/26/16
Re: Using a word.doc for paperback
Posted: Dec 2, 2017 4:06 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
 
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OOW can produce a PDF with higher dpi than Word. Although I've read of people creating a 300dpi PDF with Word I could never manage it. 300 dpi is what you want. You can probably get away with less but why bother?
You can do all you need in OOW to format for printing such as mirrored pages and footers etc.
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