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Thread: Worth reading


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Brad the wronger

Posts: 344
Registered: 07/13/17
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 10:54 AM   in response to: Moshe Ben-Or in response to: Moshe Ben-Or
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All the world's a stage, until someone exits stage left for a trip to the hospital.

Otherwise, it's been a long time since I read the OT, but didn't your people do less bitch slapping and more stone throwing? Maybe it was somebody else. So many of those stories seemed to end in name calling and stone throwing.
the_peartree

Posts: 1,019
Registered: 08/07/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 12:59 PM   in response to: uncle1282 in response to: uncle1282
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If you read the Coker's remarks about the damage Select has done, you'll answer your own question as to why someone would take his books out of the scam.

I have read them. Those are his opinions. As to whether it is a "scam", this depends very much on one's own experiences of it; this particular scam has enabled me to earn as much in a couple of months as I used to earn in full-time work for a year. I won't be taking my books out any time soon.
Mary Peebels

Posts: 514
Registered: 01/07/16
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 2:38 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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Brad the wronger wrote:

All the world's a stage, until someone exits stage left for a trip to the hospital.

The hospital I was in last month was a stage. I saw the doctor out in the hall memorizing his script lines before he came in to talk to me.
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,880
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 12, 2018 7:06 PM   in response to: the_peartree in response to: the_peartree
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the_peartree wrote:
If you read the Coker's remarks about the damage Select has done, you'll answer your own question as to why someone would take his books out of the scam.

I have read them. Those are his opinions. As to whether it is a "scam", this depends very much on one's own experiences of it; this particular scam has enabled me to earn as much in a couple of months as I used to earn in full-time work for a year. I won't be taking my books out any time soon.


I'm with you 100%. My only regret is that I listened to that stuff four years ago and started out going very wide. I sold almost nothing, the most being on B&N, which was a few. Finally, after six months or more, I quit listening to that negativity, came here and after a few months, pulled all my books from everywhere but here. In less than a year, I was earning enough to allow me to quit my day job as a PC tech. I took my books out of se lect about two years ago for an experiment and what a big mistake that was! All that accomplished was that I was missing that reven ue! I plan on leaving them there from now on! I make way more on that alone than i did in a year at all other places combined, and 99% more sales.
writerbn

Posts: 5,656
Registered: 05/12/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 5:16 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
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Patrick A. Smith wrote:
I'm with you 100%. My only regret is that I listened to that stuff four years ago and started out going very wide. I sold almost nothing, the most being on B&N, which was a few. Finally, after six months or more, I quit listening to that negativity, came here and after a few months, pulled all my books from everywhere but here. In less than a year, I was earning enough to allow me to quit my day job as a PC tech. I took my books out of se lect about two years ago for an experiment and what a big mistake that was! All that accomplished was that I was missing that reven ue! I plan on leaving them there from now on! I make way more on that alone than i did in a year at all other places combined, and 99% more sales.

Your experience shows why being in Select or not has to be an individual decision. However, I suspect you did what most indie authors do: you submitted your books to the other channels and simply left them there, doing nothing to promote them to those readers. The Zon does make it easier for indie books to gain visibility, but it can still be done elsewhere.

Regarding Coker's comments: yes, he's biased, but he does make some good points. Kay Yu is the Zon's main weapon with which to shut down the competition and make indie authors completely dependent on Select. Once they do that and drop royalties back to 35%, a lot more authors will be wishing they'd gone wide when they had the chance.
the_peartree

Posts: 1,019
Registered: 08/07/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 5:51 AM   in response to: writerbn in response to: writerbn
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Regarding Coker's comments: yes, he's biased, but he does make some good points. Kay Yu is the Zon's main weapon with which to shut down the competition and make indie authors completely dependent on Select. Once they do that and drop royalties back to 35%, a lot more authors will be wishing they'd gone wide when they had the chance.

I agree, Mark Coker knows the business and always has interesting things to say, but obviously he'll use any means he can to gain advantage over rival companies - that is business. I just think he'd be better off spending his time developing a platform to challenge KDP rather than asking for legislation to control Amazon.

This mindset is widespread, I'm afraid. In your own post you've written "main weapon to shut down the competition" - this is negatively loaded language. But all business is about shutting down the competition; this is the nature of the free market. Once you begin to pass laws to restrict competition - this is what Mark Coker is suggesting - you no longer have a free market. History tells us time and again that once you begin to interfere, you can never stop doing so - it's an endless process.

Not all authors are fools - I understand the issues but have chosen to remain in Select because it's better for my business. If you are correct and at some point, Amazon dramatically worsens the offer to authors, that's the moment of opportunity for somebody new to get into the game. But for now, why would I go wide in order to have work much harder at formatting, promoting and marketing (instead of writing) in order to achieve significantly poorer sales and income?
writerbn

Posts: 5,656
Registered: 05/12/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 8:36 AM   in response to: the_peartree in response to: the_peartree
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the_peartree wrote:
I agree, Mark Coker knows the business and always has interesting things to say, but obviously he'll use any means he can to gain advantage over rival companies - that is business. I just think he'd be better off spending his time developing a platform to challenge KDP rather than asking for legislation to control Amazon.
Or improving the existing one: the SW interface is still a relic from the early days.

Once you begin to pass laws to restrict competition - this is what Mark Coker is suggesting - you no longer have a free market. History tells us time and again that once you begin to interfere, you can never stop doing so - it's an endless process.
You're right; I didn't say I agreed with all his points. I don't have any faith in antitrust legislation. OTOH, I don't believe a completely unrestrained free market is in the best interests of consumers, but that's probably a discussion for another day.

Not all authors are fools - I understand the issues but have chosen to remain in Select because it's better for my business.
And that's a perfectly logical decision. I was in the same position 18 months ago, but I chose to take a short-term financial hit by taking my books out of Select, hoping it would pay off in the long term. I had no idea if my strategy would succeed, but it has.

If you are correct and at some point, Amazon dramatically worsens the offer to authors, that's the moment of opportunity for somebody new to get into the game.
I hope I'm wrong. However, by then it would be too late for somebody new to gain enough traction. The time for somebody new is now, and I think D2D has the best shot.

But for now, why would I go wide in order to have work much harder at formatting, promoting and marketing (instead of writing) in order to achieve significantly poorer sales and income?
There's no extra effort for formatting. I upload the same ePub files everywhere. Marketing and promoting, yes. But again, each author has to decide whether it's worth the payoff. For me, it was significantly better sales and income, not poorer.
Brad the wronger

Posts: 344
Registered: 07/13/17
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 8:46 AM   in response to: Mary Peebels in response to: Mary Peebels
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Most definitely so. Hospitals are extremely scripted. Doctors, nurses, therapists, technologists, administrators all have their scripts to follow. Not much choice about it, really. With all the limitations put on us by Medicare and insurance laws, professional licensure and certifications, and litigious-minded patients, we're forced into following scripts. Forget about being friendly. That can be construed as flirtation. And being cheerful means you're probably high. But if you don't smile, you're labeled as angry or violent. Spend a few minutes relieving someone's anxiety through extra patient teaching and you're delaying a schedule. Hurry through simple tasks and you seem impatient and distant. Working late at night? Sleep deprived and exhausted, likely to make a mistake. 24 hour growth of whiskers on your face? You're a slob. Somebody sees you sitting in the cafeteria eating half a cheese sandwich and cold coffee and they ask why you're not taking care of their spouse/parent/child/friend.

Just to get a simple surgery started is highly complex, seemingly like launching a rocket ship to Mars, involving several well educated, trained, and experienced people all doing the right thing at the right time in the right way. And that's before the incision is ever made. That's why so many people bail out early and find some other way of earning a living. More of our time and energy is spent following guidelines, meeting objectives, complying to laws, and abiding schedules than providing care.

Then somebody ends up with a scar they weren't expecting after causing a car accident because they were a drunk/high/distracted/stupid driver, and we get sued. It's not good enough they're alive. They're mad because they have a police record and massive hospital bills, and they want to take it out on somebody. What better way than taking it out on the 'wealthy' people at the hospital with a lawsuit? Or stalking them.

So, I'll revise my first message. All the world's a stage until somebody exits the hospital stage left with a lawsuit on their mind. Then the legal playacting starts.
Michael F. Quar...

Posts: 277
Registered: 12/28/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 10:00 AM   in response to: the_peartree in response to: the_peartree
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Recently, I started a thread. It asked questions about going wide. I never stated why I was about to do so, but I will here. It's simple. My work is worth more than half a cent a page.
Jon Brierton

Posts: 16
Registered: 01/08/15
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 10:46 AM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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While not on the subject of writing...I must agree. After 35+ years as a critical care nursing specialist, traveling the U.S. in hospitals large and small, my conclusion: IT'S A MINEFIELD !!

Sooo glad that I've retired & can look back without regret.
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,880
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 2:34 PM   in response to: writerbn in response to: writerbn
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writerbn wrote:
Patrick A. Smith wrote:
I'm with you 100%. My only regret is that I listened to that stuff four years ago and started out going very wide. I sold almost nothing, the most being on B&N, which was a few. Finally, after six months or more, I quit listening to that negativity, came here and after a few months, pulled all my books from everywhere but here. In less than a year, I was earning enough to allow me to quit my day job as a PC tech. I took my books out of se lect about two years ago for an experiment and what a big mistake that was! All that accomplished was that I was missing that reven ue! I plan on leaving them there from now on! I make way more on that alone than i did in a year at all other places combined, and 99% more sales.

Your experience shows why being in Select or not has to be an individual decision. However, I suspect you did what most indie authors do: you submitted your books to the other channels and simply left them there, doing nothing to promote them to those readers. The Zon does make it easier for indie books to gain visibility, but it can still be done elsewhere.

You are correct. Its only my experience. You're also right that other than a few websites, i did nothing to promote my w ork there. Where would I have gotten the mon ey? However, except for a few unsuc cesful temporary pri ce cuts, I've done no marketing here either. I could afford to promote a little now, but really, why should I? To be honest with you, i read this for um every day, and for every good post about marke ting, i read several who broke even or lost mon ey.

Regarding Coker's comments: yes, he's biased, but he does make some good points. Kay Yu is the Zon's main weapon with which to shut down the competition and make indie authors completely dependent on Select. Once they do that and drop royalties back to 35%, a lot more authors will be wishing they'd gone wide when they had the chance.

I agree, he does have some great comments. I learned a lot by reading the guide. And I realize kayu 2 isn't as good as 1 was. However, if Iever have to rely on the others, I'd have to quit anyway. I've been there.
the_peartree

Posts: 1,019
Registered: 08/07/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 2:54 PM   in response to: Michael F. Quar... in response to: Michael F. Quar...
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My work is worth more than half a cent a page.

That's easy to say. What isn't so easy to say is exactly how much a page of your work is worth. Can you come up with an actual figure?

Writers tend to get rather sanctimonious about this but the price of their work is determined by market forces in much the same way as is the price of potatoes. When there are plenty around, the price falls. You can get a bit of premium for good ones but unless you can sell considerable quantities, you'll still struggle to make a living. You might sincerely believe your potatoes are a bit special but the people who were reading them at half a cent a page to you are almost certainly NOT now go to shell out several dollars for the whole book. The end result is that fewer people will read your book once it is out of Select.
the_peartree

Posts: 1,019
Registered: 08/07/12
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 13, 2018 2:56 PM   in response to: Michael F. Quar... in response to: Michael F. Quar...
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Pointlessly modded.
Moshe Ben-Or

Posts: 597
Registered: 12/28/15
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 14, 2018 8:24 AM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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Brad the wronger wrote:
All the world's a stage, until someone exits stage left for a trip to the hospital.

Otherwise, it's been a long time since I read the OT, but didn't your people do less bitch slapping and more stone throwing? Maybe it was somebody else. So many of those stories seemed to end in name calling and stone throwing.


It's not that we did less b-slapping, it's that the b-slapping was such routine business as to merit no discussion or mention in primary sources. To this effect, the aggadic tale of how the Maccabean rebellion actually got its start is instructive. Mattatiahu's pious daughter, the story goes, was most offended by the hellenists sacrificing to idols within sight of her father's house. To make her point, she removed her headscarf at dinner. When her brothers "rose to kill her" (yes, this is a direct quote), she pointed out to them that they were willing to kill her for a mere violation of modesty in the privacy of their home, even though no religious law demanded it, but would permit the hellenists to publicly perform acts punishable by death with impunity. The men took the point to heart, and the incident with Mattatiahu killing the idolater, etc, etc, occurred the next day.

Regardless of the truth or falsehood of the tale, it illustrates social mores that modern Jews would find barbarous. Our neighbors and cousins in the region, on the other hand, are still well known for murdering their womenfolk over family honor and hijab.

Societies evolve. Cultures change. By the time of the late Byzantine period, the collection of short explanatory notes on how to properly interpret the written text and arrive at legal decision would be compiled into 72 not-so-short volumes called the Babylonian Talmud. The centuries since have only added to the layers. At this point, a rabbinical court going directly to the written text without consideration of oral law and prior precedent would be akin to a doctor treating a patient in accordance with a prescription made by Galen or Hippocrates. Any statement as to the nature of the culture that relies on a mere quote from the written text is, generally speaking, about as accurate as a statement regarding modern medicine that relies on a quote from Galen.
Brad the wronger

Posts: 344
Registered: 07/13/17
Re: Worth reading
Posted: Jan 14, 2018 8:42 AM   in response to: Jon Brierton in response to: Jon Brierton
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I suppose it's not directly related to writing. I often get ideas for plots or dialogue from reading these threads and posts.
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