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Thread: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it


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2reads1story

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Registered: 09/05/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 11:35 AM   in response to: Dale Manolakas in response to: Dale Manolakas
 
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**I have decided, as the author and the copyright owner (as author), to place an Intellectual Property Infringement Warning to follow after the copyright page of my next book. Too many times I've found my work in ebook/PDF formats on bogus websites. And I'm not getting paid! I have submitted more DMCA notices than I care to mention. Sometimes the DMCA notices will work, and the spurious website will remove my work, but sometimes the website will just assume another name and continue their devious plans. If KDP Select will permit me, I will be putting the following warning after the copyright page:**

***This “work” (book), or parts thereof from “creation” to “publication,” may not be reproduced in any form, stored in any retrieval system, or transmitted by any means—electronic, digital, mechanical, photocopy, recording, or otherwise—without prior written permission of the copyright owner (the author) and KDP Select, while the work is enrolled in the KDP Select program through Amazon sells distribution. This copyright protection will continue to be enforced should the author withdraws enrollment from the KDP Select program in accordance to its Terms and Conditions. For digital works, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 is the framework for rights management involving any electronic transmissions. Any violation of the infringement law will be subject to legal penalties. Exceptions for excerpts used in any reviews are provided by the United States of America copyright law.***
Salamander Mall...

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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 12:23 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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2reads1story wrote:
**I have decided, as the author and the copyright owner (as author), to place an Intellectual Property Infringement Warning to follow after the copyright page of my next book. Too many times I've found my work in ebook/PDF formats on bogus websites. And I'm not getting paid! I have submitted more DMCA notices than I care to mention. Sometimes the DMCA notices will work, and the spurious website will remove my work, but sometimes the website will just assume another name and continue their devious plans. If KDP Select will permit me, I will be putting the following warning after the copyright page:**

***This “work” (book), or parts thereof from “creation” to “publication,” may not be reproduced in any form, stored in any retrieval system, or transmitted by any means—electronic, digital, mechanical, photocopy, recording, or otherwise—without prior written permission of the copyright owner (the author) and KDP Select, while the work is enrolled in the KDP Select program through Amazon sells distribution. This copyright protection will continue to be enforced should the author withdraws enrollment from the KDP Select program in accordance to its Terms and Conditions. For digital works, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 is the framework for rights management involving any electronic transmissions. Any violation of the infringement law will be subject to legal penalties. Exceptions for excerpts used in any reviews are provided by the United States of America copyright law.***


So, anyone who downloads your book to a Kindle needs to get your written permission and has to find someone at KDP who cares? And they have to do it all again when they transfer it to their other e-reader? I thought there was no one sillier than the OP. I stand corrected.
2reads1story

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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 1:31 PM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
 
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Salamander Mallory,
"So, anyone who downloads your book to a Kindle needs to get your written permission and has to find someone at KDP who cares? And they have to do it all again when they transfer it to their other e-reader? I thought there was no one sillier than the OP. I stand corrected."



Had you read carefully you would have understood

". . .while the work is enrolled in the KDP Select program through Amazon sells distribution. This copyright protection will continue to be enforced should the author withdraws enrollment from the KDP Select program in accordance to its Terms and Conditions. . . "

You do know that KDP and KDP Select are two different programs, don't you? They have different Terms and Agreements. First, the purpose of the warning is to caution bogus websites from ILLEGALLY downloading copyrighted material. Second, only downloads through KDP Select are legal while the author is in the program, and should the author leave the program, the author is not subject to KDP Select's Terms and Conditions. Thus, the warning continues to protect the author's copyrights. Though the reader has the right to transfer the book to any e-reader--after legally purchasing the book through KDP Select--the reader does not have the right to infringe on the copyrights of the author by SELLING the work and transmitting that work for the purpose of selling. Third, all electronic transmissions outside of KDP Select are not legal anyway without the copyright (claimant's) written consent based on the CREATIVE work in its conception to the PUBLISHING. Fourth, your insults do not apply to me because your opinion is just that, your opinion and nothing more.
Salamander Mall...

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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 2:59 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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2reads1story wrote:
Salamander Mallory,
"So, anyone who downloads your book to a Kindle needs to get your written permission and has to find someone at KDP who cares? And they have to do it all again when they transfer it to their other e-reader? I thought there was no one sillier than the OP. I stand corrected."


Had you read carefully you would have understood". . .while the work is enrolled in the KDP Select program through Amazon sells distribution. This copyright protection will continue to be enforced should the author withdraws enrollment from the KDP Select program in accordance to its Terms and Conditions. . . " You do know that KDP and KDP Select are two different programs, don't you? They have different Terms and Agreements. First, the purpose of the warning is to caution bogus websites from ILLEGALLY downloading copyrighted material. Second, only downloads through KDP Select are legal while the author is in the program, and should the author leave the program, the author is not subject to KDP Select's Terms and Conditions. Thus, the warning continues to protect the author's copyrights. Though the reader has the right to transfer the book to any e-reader--after legally purchasing the book through KDP Select--the reader does not have the right to infringe on the copyrights of the author by SELLING the work and transmitting that work for the purpose of selling. Third, all electronic transmissions outside of KDP Select are not legal anyway without the copyright (claimant's) written consent based on the CREATIVE work in its conception to the PUBLISHING. Fourth, your insults do not apply to me because your opinion is just that, your opinion and nothing more.


It's a common enough situation when cutting and pasting, modifying and revising are involved, having to go back and explain what you actually meant. A WIP I suppose. As to whether KDP will "let" you post your little notice, why wouldn't they? You're the publisher, aren't you? As long as you don't seriously expect them to issue written permissions or inform customers when you pop out of Select, I'm sure you can do whatever you want. Just don't expect them to care. They don't -- not about you, your books, your copyrights or anything. Not about any of us.
cdalebrittain

Posts: 11,833
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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 3:47 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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I hope you realize that most of the bogus web sites that claim to have your book don't. They just want to install malware on the computer of anyone who tries to download something from them, or are phishing for your credit card number ("Just for verification purposes, your card will not be charged"--would pirates lie?).

Do what most of us do, and ignore these bogus sites. As you've discovered, you'll never shut them all down. Anyone misguided enough to "shop" at a pirate site would never have paid money for your book anyway.
Diana Persaud

Posts: 2,780
Registered: 10/07/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 3:58 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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2reads1story wrote:
**I have decided, as the author and the copyright owner (as author), to place an Intellectual Property Infringement Warning to follow after the copyright page of my next book. Too many times I've found my work in ebook/PDF formats on bogus websites. And I'm not getting paid! I have submitted more DMCA notices than I care to mention. Sometimes the DMCA notices will work, and the spurious website will remove my work, but sometimes the website will just assume another name and continue their devious plans. If KDP Select will permit me, I will be putting the following warning after the copyright page:**

***This “work” (book), or parts thereof from “creation” to “publication,” may not be reproduced in any form, stored in any retrieval system, or transmitted by any means—electronic, digital, mechanical, photocopy, recording, or otherwise—without prior written permission of the copyright owner (the author) and KDP Select, while the work is enrolled in the KDP Select program through Amazon sells distribution. This copyright protection will continue to be enforced should the author withdraws enrollment from the KDP Select program in accordance to its Terms and Conditions. For digital works, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 is the framework for rights management involving any electronic transmissions. Any violation of the infringement law will be subject to legal penalties. Exceptions for excerpts used in any reviews are provided by the United States of America copyright law.***


Do you really think the pirating sites will care about your revised copyright notice? Most every one I know has a copyright notice in the front of their books. It doesn't protect them from pirates. Nothing does.

As Salamander stated, KDP isn't going to email or mail customers anything. It's all on you. But which customer will even read that notice?

Do as you please, you are the publisher, but I seriously hope you don't expect it to stop pirates.
2reads1story

Posts: 17
Registered: 09/05/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 4:09 PM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
 
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Salamander Mallory, "It's a common enough situation when cutting and pasting, modifying and revising are involved, having to go back and explain what you actually meant. A WIP I suppose. As to whether KDP will "let" you post your little notice, why wouldn't they? You're the publisher, aren't you? As long as you don't seriously expect them to issue written permissions or inform customers when you pop out of Select, I'm sure you can do whatever you want. Just don't expect them to care. They don't -- not about you, your books, your copyrights or anything. Not about any of us.

Correcting and changing errors in a "work" does not terminate or make null-in-void the copyright of the "CREATED" work, even when the work is published. And the purpose of placing my copyright infringement warning in the e-book (electronic platform) isn’t designed to “inform customers when you pop out of Select,” as to your expression. The warning/notice is used to INFORM would-be thieves of the consequences of infringing on an author’s work; thus, discouraging them not to infringe. And as for KDP Select and Amazon not caring, well, I know that. Hence the reason for the copyright infringement warning. My job, as the author, is to let those who would ILLEGALLY take my work for the purpose of piracy and infringe on my work (without permission).

2reads1story

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Registered: 09/05/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 4:18 PM   in response to: cdalebrittain in response to: cdalebrittain
 
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Cdalebrittain, "“I hope you realize that most of the bogus web sites that claim to have your book don't. They just want to install malware on the computer of anyone who tries to download something from them, or are phishing for your credit card number ("Just for verification purposes, your card will not be charged"--would pirates lie?). Do what most of us do, and ignore these bogus sites. As you've discovered, you'll never shut them all down. Anyone misguided enough to "shop" at a pirate site would never have paid money for your book anyway.”


And I’ll have you know that many websites have gotten the PDF files to duplicate the work of the author by purchasing the e-book, then copying and transmitting the work, and are selling books right from beneath the author’s nose, thus, the author loses royalties. Besides, the purpose of the infringement warning is not to shut down bogus websites, but to keep those websites from stealing YOUR work. Two different things. Of course, you can ignore those sites, but that's on you. You should at least give yourself a fighting chance and pave the way to file a suit. That's the least an author can do.


Edited by: 2reads1story on Jan 25, 2018 4:18 PM
2reads1story

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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 4:26 PM   in response to: Diana Persaud in response to: Diana Persaud
 
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Diana Persaud posted the following message:
Do you really think the pirating sites will care about your revised copyright notice? Most every one I know has a copyright notice in the front of their books. It doesn't protect them from pirates. Nothing does.

As Salamander stated, KDP isn't going to email or mail customers anything. It's all on you. But which customer will even read that notice?

Do as you please, you are the publisher, but I seriously hope you don't expect it to stop pirates.

It’s not about making the pirating sites "care!" Of course they don’t care. That’s why they’re infringing. However, the purpose of the copyright infringement notice is to WARN those spurious sites that the author can sue for stolen intellectual property infringements on their work. That discourages illegal transmissions. And the notice is not merely a date, name and copyright mark (that’s what the thieves see, but they don’t understand the consequences)h3>

Salamander Mall...

Posts: 1,014
Registered: 10/16/17
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 7:32 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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2reads1story wrote:
Salamander Mallory, "It's a common enough situation when cutting and pasting, modifying and revising are involved, having to go back and explain what you actually meant. A WIP I suppose. As to whether KDP will "let" you post your little notice, why wouldn't they? You're the publisher, aren't you? As long as you don't seriously expect them to issue written permissions or inform customers when you pop out of Select, I'm sure you can do whatever you want. Just don't expect them to care. They don't -- not about you, your books, your copyrights or anything. Not about any of us.

Correcting and changing errors in a "work" does not terminate or make null-in-void the copyright of the "CREATED" work, even when the work is published. And the purpose of placing my copyright infringement warning in the e-book (electronic platform) isn’t designed to “inform customers when you pop out of Select,” as to your expression. The warning/notice is used to INFORM would-be thieves of the consequences of infringing on an author’s work; thus, discouraging them not to infringe. And as for KDP Select and Amazon not caring, well, I know that. Hence the reason for the copyright infringement warning. My job, as the author, is to let those who would ILLEGALLY take my work for the purpose of piracy and infringe on my work (without permission).


Your protean copyright notice is itself copyrighted? Don't think I've seen that before. Interesting. And the notice isn't for customers after all, but pirates? I don't know that you want to make that distinction in whatever your final notice looks like...a WIP indeed. It seems, however, like a lot of work with little return to show for it. If nothing else, I'm sure the pirates will be intimidated, but I think I'll stick with my plain old simple ©2018 The Salamander, and sleep very well at night. Their customers, assuming they actually exist (a huge and unsupported assumption) are not my customers. If "the pirates" give it away to people who would never have bought it in the first place, I lose nothing from it. There are plenty of real things to worry about in my life without imagining piratical conspiracies, but if your verbiage helps you to sleep better, forge ahead. Good luck with your project.
cdalebrittain

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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 7:51 PM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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I'm assuming you registered your copyright with copyright dot gov. Otherwise you can't sue for damages.

I also hope you didn't try downloading the purported pdf of your book "just to see." A lot of new authors get in trouble that way. In fact, I sometimes think the authors are the principal targets of these pirate sites.

Use your indoor voice in forums, please. It's more polite.
2reads1story

Posts: 17
Registered: 09/05/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 7:57 PM   in response to: Salamander Mall... in response to: Salamander Mall...
 
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It’s not a lot of work. It’s a matter of putting the copyright infringement warning on a page in the e-book format. That way, when the e-book is purchased, the notice will be inside the work—after the copyright page that has my name, date and copyright mark (©2018). The notice will be on a separate page, just like there's a separate page for a Dedication page and Acknowledgment page, etc. I format my own e-books. What you decide to do with your created work is your own business. I’m going to do what I think is best to protect my work from infringement. Common sense should prevail that if piracy happens, it is because there's something to be gained for the person that steals the work. Otherwise, the person wouldn’t bother. Hey, but that’s on you! And whether I will sleep better because of the copyright warning. . . I probably will.

2reads1story

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Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 25, 2018 8:14 PM   in response to: cdalebrittain in response to: cdalebrittain
 
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Cdalebrittain "I'm assuming you registered your copyright with copyright dot gov. Otherwise you can't sue for damages.

I also hope you didn't try downloading the purported pdf of your book "just to see." A lot of new authors get in trouble that way. In fact, I sometimes think the authors are the principal targets of these pirate sites.

Use your indoor voice in forums, please. It's more polite.


A person's work is automatically copyrighted from its "creation"--when it is put in writing. Filing your work with the copyright office is just a matter of formality, in case you have to sue to prove you're the copyright claimant. It doesn't mean you can't sue for damages. And a claimant should be able to prove that easily by dates and time when the work was created, uploaded, etc. Also, the author can have the book printed and snail-mailed back to himself/herself without opening the envelope, preserving the date and time from the USPO delivery (an old trick before computer days) And the pirate(s) will have to show proof that the work is his/hers as well. Which will not be an easy thing to do when he/she can't produce the original "created" work. I'm not screaming, it's just hard to read the tiny fonts.

Diana Persaud

Posts: 2,780
Registered: 10/07/13
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 7:23 AM   in response to: 2reads1story in response to: 2reads1story
 
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2reads1story wrote:
Cdalebrittain "I'm assuming you registered your copyright with copyright dot gov. Otherwise you can't sue for damages.

I also hope you didn't try downloading the purported pdf of your book "just to see." A lot of new authors get in trouble that way. In fact, I sometimes think the authors are the principal targets of these pirate sites.

Use your indoor voice in forums, please. It's more polite.


A person's work is automatically copyrighted from its "creation"--when it is put in writing. Filing your work with the copyright office is just a matter of formality, in case you have to sue to prove you're the copyright claimant. It doesn't mean you can't sue for damages. And a claimant should be able to prove that easily by dates and time when the work was created, uploaded, etc. Also, the author can have the book printed and snail-mailed back to himself/herself without opening the envelope, preserving the date and time from the USPO delivery (an old trick before computer days) And the pirate(s) will have to show proof that the work is his/hers as well. Which will not be an easy thing to do when he/she can't produce the original "created" work. I'm not screaming, it's just hard to read the tiny fonts

This is partially true. You can sue BUT without filing with the copyright agency in the US, the amount you can recover is seriously limited. IIRC, the courts won't even touch a copyright infringement case unless you've already filed for copyright and the infringement takes place AFTER you've filed.

Unless you have a $100,000 (to start) to pursue each copyright infringement case, you're wasting your time with this talk of suing.

Again, the notice won't deter thieves. That's like putting a notice on your front door telling a burglar that B&E is illegal. Locks only keep honest people out. The same is true for the copyright notice. DRM doesn't do anything other than tick off honest customers. (I speak from experience).
2reads1story

Posts: 17
Registered: 09/05/12
Re: Copyright Infringement and Amazon's Ability, if not duty, to stop it
Posted: Jan 26, 2018 8:59 AM   in response to: Diana Persaud in response to: Diana Persaud
 
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A person's work is automatically copyrighted from its "creation"--when it is put in writing. Filing your work with the copyright office is just a matter of formality, in case you have to sue to prove you're the copyright claimant. It doesn't mean you can't sue for damages. And a claimant should be able to prove that easily by dates and time when the work was created, uploaded, etc. Also, the author can have the book printed and snail-mailed back to himself/herself without opening the envelope, preserving the date and time from the USPO delivery (an old trick before computer days) And the pirate(s) will have to show proof that the work is his/hers as well. Which will not be an easy thing to do when he/she can't produce the original "created" work. I'm not screaming, it's just hard to read the tiny fonts

This is partially true. You can sue BUT without filing with the copyright agency in the US, the amount you can recover is seriously limited. IIRC, the courts won't even touch a copyright infringement case unless you've already filed for copyright and the infringement takes place AFTER you've filed.

Unless you have a $100,000 (to start) to pursue each copyright infringement case, you're wasting your time with this talk of suing.

Again, the notice won't deter thieves. That's like putting a notice on your front door telling a burglar that B&E is illegal. Locks only keep honest people out. The same is true for the copyright notice. DRM doesn't do anything other than tick off honest customers. (I speak from experience).
Diana Persaud wrote:

2reads1story wrote:
Cdalebrittain "I'm assuming you registered your copyright with copyright dot gov. Otherwise you can't sue for damages.

I also hope you didn't try downloading the purported pdf of your book "just to see." A lot of new authors get in trouble that way. In fact, I sometimes think the authors are the principal targets of these pirate sites.

Use your indoor voice in forums, please. It's more polite.


A person's work is automatically copyrighted from its "creation"--when it is put in writing. Filing your work with the copyright office is just a matter of formality, in case you have to sue to prove you're the copyright claimant. It doesn't mean you can't sue for damages. And a claimant should be able to prove that easily by dates and time when the work was created, uploaded, etc. Also, the author can have the book printed and snail-mailed back to himself/herself without opening the envelope, preserving the date and time from the USPO delivery (an old trick before computer days) And the pirate(s) will have to show proof that the work is his/hers as well. Which will not be an easy thing to do when he/she can't produce the original "created" work. I'm not screaming, it's just hard to read the tiny fonts

This is partially true. You can sue BUT without filing with the copyright agency in the US, the amount you can recover is seriously limited. IIRC, the courts won't even touch a copyright infringement case unless you've already filed for copyright and the infringement takes place AFTER you've filed.

Unless you have a $100,000 (to start) to pursue each copyright infringement case, you're wasting your time with this talk of suing.

Again, the notice won't deter thieves. That's like putting a notice on your front door telling a burglar that B&E is illegal. Locks only keep honest people out. The same is true for the copyright notice. DRM doesn't do anything other than tick off honest customers. (I speak from experience).

Diane Persaud, “This is partially true. You can sue BUT without filing with the copyright agency in the US, the amount you can recover is seriously limited. IIRC, the courts won't even touch a copyright infringement case unless you've already filed for copyright and the infringement takes place AFTER you've filed.”


Helena, Where is it stated that the recovery amount for an infringement will be “limited?” And as for filing the copyright AFTER registering the work doesn’t take away the penalty. But, it can slow things down, I grant you. I have linked the following info with excerpts:

See link: https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf

“How Long Does Copyright Last?”

“In general, for works created on or after January 1, 1978, the term of copyright is the life of the author plus seventy years after the author’s death. If the work is a joint work with multiple authors, the term lasts for seventy years after the last surviving author’s death. For works made for hire and anonymous or pseudonymous works, the duration of copyright is 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter.”

And what you say is true concerning “registering” the work; however, the Benefits of Registration also states:

• “ Registration establishes prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright and facts stated in the certificate when registration is made before or within five years of publication.
• When registration is made prior to infringement or within three months after publication of a work, a copyright owner is eligible for statutory damages, attorneys’ fees, and costs.”

And, it also says the following: “Registration can be made at any time within the life of the copyright. If you register before publication, you do not have to re-register when the work is published, although you can register the published edition, if desired.”

Diane Persaud, “Unless you have a $100,000 (to start) to pursue each copyright infringement case, you're wasting your time with this talk of suing.”


Helena, Now where is that written? Some lawyers will take PRO BONO cases, and some attorneys will allow for their clients to pay only if they win the suit. And even CLASS ACTION SUITS will make things much cheaper for Indy authors to file. It’s only a matter of time when that will happen anyway—a class action suit—when authors start to get angry enough. It always does, eventually.,/h3>

Diane Persaud, “Again, the notice won't deter thieves. That's like putting a notice on your front door telling a burglar that B&E is illegal. Locks only keep honest people out. The same is true for the copyright notice. DRM doesn't do anything other than tick off honest customers. (I speak from experience).”


Helena, Using your analogy from a different point, if I were to post a sign on my front door BEWARE OF DOGS! chances are, that will deter you from entering my home. Here’s my point in a nutshell, and then I will move on. . .

The point of having a copyright mark with the name and date of the author is to let readers know that your work is protected. We all know that. That’s a given. However, the average reader—though knowing that—doesn’t know the CONSEQUENCES of violating a copyright law. Thus, a written warning to explain those consequences will act as a deterrent. This is not complicated.

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