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Thread: Those ureka moments


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C. Gold

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Registered: 02/17/15
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 5, 2018 11:04 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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Brad the wronger wrote:
a bit of hand waving on the math

It's not for a book quite yet but probably will be someday. My spare time hobby these days is to come up with a theoretical model of a nanobot to use in cancer treatments. The bot would be built from patient-specific RNA and a virus that can replicate without degradation. So far, that's the easy part. It's become something of a beast, with nanocapsules, motors, a ligand anchor and a magnetic draw, hence the whiskers and ferrous cube, and needs to be bidirectional through the use of a dumbbell shuttle. That's the not so easy part. As soon as I get that Eureka! moment, something about the math doesn't work. Or at least I think it doesn't work. I end up spending half a day trying to make that doggone math work, and it just sits there and mocks me. Then it's back to the virtual backboard. To sell this idea, the math needs to prove the theory. Like I said, I doubt anybody will pick it up, so I'll turn it into a tech thriller of some sort.

lived in a town with that name for a while

Eureka, Nv by any chance?

No, Eureka, MO.
Your nano hobby sounds quite fun :)
Patrick A. Smith

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Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 7, 2018 9:15 PM   in response to: Duane Dingle in response to: Duane Dingle
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Duane Dingle wrote:
acornwriter wrote:
Yep... yesterday when I was washing the dishes. Just flowed to me. Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about it. Time to get back to work...

Seriously, thanks. I will watch for your substantive posts.

It puts the fire back under you to get to work, doesn't it? I was spending way too much time rewriting the same chapter over and over and over again as I waited for something to hit me, and a little bit after I gave up, there it was. It just amazes me.

I love having Eureka moments! The best way i get them is to

get away from the book a bit and work on another one. Or,
To drive somewhere and think, or
To try to go to sleep... I keep a clipboard with pen and paper beside the bed so since I'm trying to sleep i begin getting ideas and write them down.
uncle1282

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Registered: 12/20/10
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 9:30 AM   in response to: Duane Dingle in response to: Duane Dingle
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I buy into the idea that such moments are the subconscious floating to the surface. I get them most often in the morning, either upon waking or showering. Since I use the E.L. Doctorow method of writing by the seat of my pants, I rarely know the next day's draft until I get there. My subconscious works on the plot while I sleep, or, in the daytime when I go about non-writing activities. Once I got a flash while posting here. Wonder of wonders.
acornwriter

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Registered: 07/21/10
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 2:34 PM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
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I keep a clipboard with pen and paper beside the bed so since I'm trying to sleep i begin getting ideas and write them down.

Ya see... that's why I like this Amazon community of authors. We understand one another. Or should I say, one another's obsessions...
acornwriter

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Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 2:46 PM   in response to: uncle1282 in response to: uncle1282
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I buy into the idea that such moments are the subconscious floating to the surface. I get them most often in the morning, either upon waking or showering. Since I use the E.L. Doctorow method of writing by the seat of my pants, I rarely know the next day's draft until I get there. My subconscious works on the plot while I sleep, or, in the daytime when I go about non-writing activities. Once I got a flash while posting here. Wonder of wonders.

Posts like this are helpful. Especially for those just starting out. It can be confusing in the beginning. The creative process varies. Some people are structured others are free-wheeling. And everything in between. I started out "seat of my pants." After seeing some posts about how detrimental that was, I naively went toward more structured. I'm glad I did because my "seat of the pants" style, now has more structure. But, I'll tell ya, I never know what some of my characters are going to do. And there is no apologizing for them. Sitting down to write is often like opening a book and not knowing what is going to happen. It makes it more fun that way.

Sometimes I wonder if these stories are true in another dimension. Some physicists say there are as many dimensions as one can dream up.
Patrick A. Smith

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Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 7:22 PM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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acornwriter wrote:
I buy into the idea that such moments are the subconscious floating to the surface. I get them most often in the morning, either upon waking or showering. Since I use the E.L. Doctorow method of writing by the seat of my pants, I rarely know the next day's draft until I get there. My subconscious works on the plot while I sleep, or, in the daytime when I go about non-writing activities. Once I got a flash while posting here. Wonder of wonders.

Posts like this are helpful. Especially for those just starting out. It can be confusing in the beginning. The creative process varies. Some people are structured others are free-wheeling. And everything in between. I started out "seat of my pants." After seeing some posts about how detrimental that was, I naively went toward more structured. I'm glad I did because my "seat of the pants" style, now has more structure. But, I'll tell ya, I never know what some of my characters are going to do. And there is no apologizing for them. Sitting down to write is often like opening a book and not knowing what is going to happen. It makes it more fun that way.


Im trying hard to break my pantster style of writing but its hard not to do it! Hopefully, beginning with my next book i plan on writing one chapter then carefully edit it before going to the next one. I usually create an outline with named chapters that will reflect what event I think will happen in each one, so if I get an idea for chapter 6 while editing chapter 1, I plan on writing the idea in chapter 6 tthen returning to chapter 1.

I realize that some overall change may require returning to earlier chapters but it will be tweaking, not hours to fix. Hopefully that will work.

Sometimes I wonder if these stories are true in another dimension. Some physicists say there are as many dimensions as one can dream up.

Interesting!
acornwriter

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Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 10:13 PM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
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I realize that some overall change may require returning to earlier chapters but it will be tweaking, not hours to fix. Hopefully that will work.

We learn to edit carefully as we go along, don't we? It's much easier that way. Whatever we can do to streamline the editing process. Otherwise, it's too painful and hair-raising. =:0
Patrick A. Smith

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Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 10:19 PM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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acornwriter wrote:
I keep a clipboard with pen and paper beside the bed so since I'm trying to sleep i begin getting ideas and write them down.

Ya see... that's why I like this Amazon community of authors. We understand one another. Or should I say, one another's obsessions...


Yes we do! it is very encouraging to talk to other writers
Patrick A. Smith

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Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 8, 2018 10:22 PM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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acornwriter wrote:
I realize that some overall change may require returning to earlier chapters but it will be tweaking, not hours to fix. Hopefully that will work.

We learn to edit carefully as we go along, don't we? It's much easier that way. Whatever we can do to streamline the editing process. Otherwise, it's too painful and hair-raising. =:0


Ppl who don't write wouldn't understand why you say that, but I do! I started a novel the last of October and now I'm putting out shorter stories instead of editing that one, which maybe i should be.
acornwriter

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Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 7:26 AM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
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Patrick A Smith wrote: Ppl who don't write wouldn't understand why you say that, but I do! I started a novel the last of October and now I'm putting out shorter stories instead of editing that one, which maybe i should be.

Word was, readers like a book to be at least 100,000 words. That may be ideal but I like 73,000. Why? Because I can keep track of the story and the characters. I can usually tell the story at 73,000. For me, trying to make a 100,000 word story out of a 73,000 word story, is just asking for fluff and boredom. And taking the time to edit chapter by chapter, works well for me. I aim for 100,000 words but lately they're coming up shorter.

I must admit that I had a reader complain that my stories, "keep getting shorter and shorter."

Sorry about that but that's my writing evolution. I want to enjoy writing a story, wrap it up and begin another one. And to be candid, I've been writing heavily since the late 1980's. My left hand is suffering. In between my stories, I write non-fiction that is built around hours of research, not hours of typing. I'm coping and still enjoying Indie publishing.
uncle1282

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Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 10:38 AM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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I've seen many posts here and elsewhere about pantser vs. outliner styles. There's no hard rule for either; each has advantages and drawbacks. My insolent imagination could never stick to any outline I wrote, so early on I developed a procedure, a style, a technique that works for me.

I do advise other writers to do a chapter edit a day or days after drafting it. For me this is a quick edit, usually cutting extra words or finding better ones. This isn't like an overall revision or edit. I've sold a few copies of "Self-Edit Your Novel," which details this and other techniques.

Even though I'm a pantser I sometimes do get an idea for the next chapter that I jot down; even a couple of ideas. This "grocery list" may or may not guide me through following day's drafts. Since I hate drafting and love revising, I try to keep the draft periods short, say 1-3 hours, usually in the a.m. when my mind hasn't been distracted by non-writing events. Occasionally while reading I'll pull out a word or a neat phrase and scribble them on my laundry list to ether insert in past drafts or to use in future ones.

I don't see pantsing as "detrimental" to my work; it's simply one way of writing. My books are mysteries, or now romance-mysteries and I aim for 60-70k words. That length may be read in one sitting or one day, though usually it takes more. Having gone through a Russian-novel reading period, I can tackle longer works but often see where they might be pared down. I am, like most readers in the TV Internet world, impatient with padded books.
Patrick A. Smith

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Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 11:43 AM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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acornwriter wrote:
Patrick A Smith wrote: Ppl who don't write wouldn't understand why you say that, but I do! I started a novel the last of October and now I'm putting out shorter stories instead of editing that one, which maybe i should be.

Word was, readers like a book to be at least 100,000 words. That may be ideal but I like 73,000. Why? Because I can keep track of the story and the characters. I can usually tell the story at 73,000. For me, trying to make a 100,000 word story out of a 73,000 word story, is just asking for fluff and boredom. And taking the time to edit chapter by chapter, works well for me. I aim for 100,000 words but lately they're coming up shorter.

I must admit that I had a reader complain that my stories, "keep getting shorter and shorter."

Sorry about that but that's my writing evolution. I want to enjoy writing a story, wrap it up and begin another one. And to be candid, I've been writing heavily since the late 1980's. My left hand is suffering. In between my stories, I write non-fiction that is built around hours of research, not hours of typing. I'm coping and still enjoying Indie publishing.


Don't you even think about writing! You are one of my favorite posters!

I'm trying to get into some shorter stories, and I never look to see the number of words. I simply look to see the number of Word pages and estimate how many k d p pages that will show on the ad page.

As for your hand, try that dragon software with a good microphone. I think you were the one discussing that program with me last year? It's great, however, I've only went through the training and haven't actually used it yet...
Patrick A. Smith

Posts: 1,922
Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 11:51 AM   in response to: uncle1282 in response to: uncle1282
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uncle1282 wrote:
I've seen many posts here and elsewhere about pantser vs. outliner styles. There's no hard rule for either; each has advantages and drawbacks. My insolent imagination could never stick to any outline I wrote, so early on I developed a procedure, a style, a technique that works for me.
I'm interested.please explain your technique.

I love writing fast and furious, but I'm tired of the long editing process at the end, so beginning today, i intend to edit each chapter as I go.

I do have outlines, but never exactly stick to them. They are simply named chapters so I can easily remember my ideas and change or move chapters as needed.
ronn munsterman

Posts: 53
Registered: 11/30/12
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 12:31 PM   in response to: Duane Dingle in response to: Duane Dingle
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Yep. I've had those moments and it's always when I'm not thinking about the book. The same sort of thing happened to me, and my coworkers, in IT programming.

In his book On Writing, Stephen King says he was stumped for 3 full weeks on what to do in the middle of The Stand. Spoiler alert: it came to him when he was on his daily walk. The solution was an explosion. The rest of the book just flew out of his head after that.

I find that if I try too hard to directly solve the puzzle, the answer seems to move farther away.
C. Gold

Posts: 1,298
Registered: 02/17/15
Re: Those ureka moments
Posted: Feb 9, 2018 1:24 PM   in response to: uncle1282 in response to: uncle1282
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I try to outline, but it's rather like how I was with doing flowcharts before coding... I wound up writing the flowcharts AFTER the code was done because otherwise it just kept changing!

I enjoy pantsing because my characters do things I never would have thought of when doing an outline. In the outline stage, I don't know my characters well enough to predict what's going to happen. Also, I like not knowing what's going to happen next--feels like I'm reading my book as I'm writing it. I'm not worried about the lack of planning, because I think I've read enough books to have an instinctive understanding of how the overall plot and character development should evolve.
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