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Thread: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.


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C. Gold

Posts: 1,026
Registered: 02/17/15
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 15, 2017 3:06 PM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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I've also seen blurbs with a note about second revision at the bottom to try and allay fears of it still being poorly edited.
bg ingram

Posts: 17
Registered: 05/28/17
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 16, 2017 8:13 AM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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I agree I made a regrettable mistake. Also, I had a lady give me a 1 star and she says she has NOT read the book?
jamesfc

Posts: 2,557
Registered: 08/14/11
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 16, 2017 2:10 PM   in response to: C. Gold in response to: C. Gold
 
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That's a good idea also. About 18 months ago one of my authors accidentally uploaded the original unedited version of her latest book to Amazon. After 2 lousy reviews mentioning lack of editing I opened up the "Look Inside" and found to my horror all the mistakes that I knew for certain I had corrected. I contacted her urgently and she hastily uploaded the edited version. There is a "comment" section on each of the reviews so she apologized and explained what happened. Some buyers would have noticed these comments while some wouldn't have so the idea of adding to the blurb .... REVISED EDITION--- RE-EDITED...... definitely makes sense.

James
"Treat Others as you want to be treated yourself"
ashok singh

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Registered: 03/03/14
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 17, 2017 7:16 AM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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Hello sir. Please forgive me for the late response. I have sent you two emails. Please read them.
jamesfc

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Registered: 08/14/11
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 17, 2017 11:41 AM   in response to: ashok singh in response to: ashok singh
 
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Hi Ashok, received one email only with sample chapters. Responded last night asking for total word count.
Just sent same email again this morning from my back-up Yahoo email account in case of email problems.

James

Edited by: jamesfc on Sep 17, 2017 11:45 AM
ashok singh

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Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 17, 2017 11:27 PM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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Sent you the word count sir.
jamesfc

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Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 18, 2017 12:27 AM   in response to: ashok singh in response to: ashok singh
 
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Thanks Ashok, have responded.
James

..................................
jamesfc

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Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 20, 2017 3:27 PM   in response to: bg ingram in response to: bg ingram
 
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Well, I've been a staunch supporter of Amazon ever since Jeff Bezos started it many years ago. I've noticed that they correct mistakes fairly quickly and considering they are a highly innovative progressive organization this means that they are right on the ball.

However one perpetual gripe I have with them is that they permit reviews from non-verified purchasers. To my mind this is a serious marketing error. Reviews should only be permitted from verified purchasers. No doubt Amazon have their reasons for this.... I wish they would share them.
The other gripe I have is about "reviewers" who state quite clearly that they "have not read the book" then proceed to give it a lousy star rating. To my mind reviews should be accepted only from readers who appear to have read the book.

So moderator...... please shoot this message up to Jeff Bezos. He has listened to my feedback in the past and his secretary has responded positively.
Thank you.

James

"Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself"
C. Gold

Posts: 1,026
Registered: 02/17/15
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 20, 2017 7:38 PM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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How much of the book should a reader have to read before they are considered a verified customer? I've certainly run into the case where I bought a book because it was a continuation of a series I really liked, but the main character changed to the guy's son who was a whiny, selfish brat I hated from the first time he opened his mouth and got them all in trouble with the King's soldiers who came to pay a visit. That was a vile surprise. The father 'mysteriously' was gone for the entire book. I skipped the entire thing and read the last chapter just to see how it ended since I already paid for it, but boy was I steamed. I bet I read less of that book than most Look Inside contents of other books. I've also run into books that became so boring I couldn't finish. You can be sure I left reviews on all these negative experiences to save other readers from suffering the same thing.

Also, I have hundreds of books purchased from non-Amazon book stores and used book stores. I should be able to leave reviews for those without having to buy off Amazon when I already own it. In some cases, I can't even get an ebook version so I'm sure as heck not going to order a second paper copy. I've already run out of storage for more.

So there are valid reasons why people may not be verified but still leave a review. I agree, saying you haven't read it and giving it a bad review makes no sense to me and I ignore those when deciding on a purchase.
R Butler

Posts: 142
Registered: 09/20/17
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 20, 2017 7:59 PM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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A great theory but how do you intend to handle the fact that Amazon sales are not the sole method of attaining a book and having a "verified" valid opinion. For that matter how would you suggest publishers handle ARC copies, a time tested publishing processes that has been proven and in place for hundreds of years? The point of allowing product reviews is to give potential customers solid honest feedback on the product and that feedback does not necessarily come only from a subsection of readers that purchased the product through one specific retailer. For reviews to be effective for the consumer they need to be centralized and not sale channel dependent. Amazon has done a good job (along with goodreads) of becoming that central review source for books, if they were to shut the door to reviews by customers that bought or attained the book elsewhere that centralization is lost and the system starts to become less meaningful for the buyer.
jamesfc

Posts: 2,557
Registered: 08/14/11
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 21, 2017 3:14 PM   in response to: R Butler in response to: R Butler
 
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OK, it looks like Amazon are aiming at becoming the largest book-review site on the market. If this is the case then the way they allow unverified responses is understandable. This might be good business for them but not necessarily for the author.
However this does not explain why they should allow a "reader" who clearly states that they have not read the book, to post a review. I cannot see any logical reason for this. Anyone have any ideas?

James
C. Gold

Posts: 1,026
Registered: 02/17/15
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 21, 2017 10:16 PM   in response to: jamesfc in response to: jamesfc
 
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They are mostly concerned with that is good for the reader. As for reviews that state flat out they didn't read the book - easy for a reader to skip. The author might try to report it as bogus and see if they remove it.
bg ingram

Posts: 17
Registered: 05/28/17
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 22, 2017 7:29 AM   in response to: C. Gold in response to: C. Gold
 
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I think, (feebly being that it is 6:30 am and I have not finished my morning cup of inspiration) C Gold has at least part of the answer, Amazon wants to make it easy for readers to scan through the review totals deciding what E-book to read next ! ....and Amazon knows us 'author types' are thick skinned and can stand abuse! (lol cough), In fact, there is one person in charge of such 'author abuse' who believes deeply in the old saw, "what doesn't kill them serves to make them stronger"! So we should find out who this director of Author Abuse is and send them 'Thank You' notes for the work they do to help us become stronger, tougher humans !!
Last night I downloaded samples of my story and after reading through three chapters decided I could edit the book to a point where the editing, although not perfect, would certainly allow 95% of my target audience (still breathing) to enjoy the funny stories and sit still, with mouth open, as I describe the incredible adventures of men who volunteered to fly among our well-trained enemy who are offered huge rewards if they shoot down a helicopter. ( I see the coffee is working).
So my next step is to personally re-edit 'Slick Driver' in Word format and put it back up for sale with a warning to grammar and style snowflakes, Caveat emptor.
Thanks all for the sage advice, and happy writing to you.
bg Ingram
R Butler

Posts: 142
Registered: 09/20/17
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 22, 2017 9:02 AM   in response to: bg ingram in response to: bg ingram
 
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In my experience the cost of a professional edit is a pittance in comparison to the long term cost of not getting one done. In a saturated market, such as we are all competing in, you need to put forth a solid competitive product and grammar, structure, continuity, plot points, and everything else a professional edit provides is expected by the consumer.

A single bad review based on a poor edit can spiral to multiples and easily drive down sales. Even without a bad review, many readers rely on the samples available to help in their buying decision. If the sample reflects a poor style, structure, and grammar they tend to move on.

Professional editing is expensive but there is a reason it exists, one can not properly edit their own work. You can never read it for the first time again nor can you provide and unbiased critique. Traditional publishing companies have learned these things and put in place methodologies to ensure the product they produce is of a certain quality, the reading public is used to this and independent authors need to ensure we learn from their history if we wish to be competitive.
uncle1282

Posts: 1,338
Registered: 12/20/10
Re: What are current book editing costs? I'm just curious.
Posted: Sep 22, 2017 11:12 AM   in response to: R Butler in response to: R Butler
 
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It is a lousy myth that a writer cannot properly edit his own work. I published an entire book showing the writer just how to do that. The myth is perpetuated mostly by editors but also by uninformed writers.

Think about it: a writer of fiction has many aspects to learn, a huge skill set to master if he is to write good fiction. Plus the classical method of aping famous writers isn't even taught today (see "Write Like the Masters" by Wm. Cane). Is the skill set of a good editor larger in scope than that of the writer's skillset? No, I doubt it.

Who knows more about the writer's intent than the writer himself?

Is a writer so blind to his work that he cannot see errors, plot holes, improper words or pacing? Can he learn how to spot these things? In short, can a writer learn how to edit his own work and that of others? Certainly.

Every time I see this myth I will try to stop it out by reasoning. I've published millions of words, including (4) 1,200 page volumes "Mark Twain Day By Day"; 20 Mike Angel Mystery Novels; 2 short story collections, and a little tome called "Self-Edit Your Novel," that I make free from time to time and 3.99 the rest of the time. NONE of these were edited by someone paid to edit. I use beta readers only sparingly, or not at all. The Twain books have been purchased in hard copy by most Ivy League and major universities and libraries, so much so that I'm nearly sold out. The mysteries, written in a hardboiled Chandler-Spillane style consistently sell 20-100 copies per month. No, I won't ever be on the NYT best seller list. But the work and sales are satisfying to me.

One of the great advantages of self-publishing on Amazon or Smashwords is the ability to update the work. I often read one of my novels over each year and though I don't edit to improve (a book is never finished but merely abandoned) I fix an occasional missing word or missing quotation mark (I seem to drop ending quote marks now and then). Two of my mysteries were done on ACX and the great voice who did them marveled at how clean the copy was. I don't make claims for my work; I believe in leaving that up to readers.

I'm currently starting a new series set in 1942 right after Pearl Harbor. I won't publish until I have 2 or 3 novels finished, 60k each plus. I won't pay someone to do what I can do well myself. Writers can and should be self-editors. Each set of skills reinforce the other.
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