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Thread: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance


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M.R. Brazear

Posts: 4,847
Registered: 07/18/13
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 19, 2014 10:24 PM   in response to: billhiatt in response to: billhiatt
 
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billhiatt wrote:
Since the offer refers to a publishing contract with Amazon, if the email didn't really come from Amazon, whoever did send it is going to be in big trouble for misrepresenting. I'm not sure how that statement could be interpreted except as a reference to Amazon Publishing.
But they are offering a contract with Amazon, the same contract we have with Amazon. Nowhere do they mention Amazon Publishing and as far as I can see, they are offering to become middlemen for the same contract we have already. They are not even offering to design covers, edit, proofread, or anything else for that matter. $1500 is a pittance when most top self publishers are making more than that per month, and surely if it were really from Amazon they would be addressing their emails directly to publishers by name. What they are offering to do is cream off 20% of royalties for themselves and by posting a sample for public opinion, they more or less know which ones will sell and which won't.

As to not talking about it, if they have sent out an unsolicited email, it is not up to them to tell people what they can and can't talk about. If it walks like a con and quacks like a con, it is a con.
Jonathan B

Posts: 4,489
Registered: 10/23/12
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 19, 2014 10:31 PM   in response to: dmd13 in response to: dmd13
 
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I like my 70%, thank you very much.
tunskit

Posts: 311
Registered: 07/10/10
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 12:01 AM   in response to: M.R. Brazear in response to: M.R. Brazear
 
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M.R. Brazear wrote:
billhiatt wrote:
Since the offer refers to a publishing contract with Amazon, if the email didn't really come from Amazon, whoever did send it is going to be in big trouble for misrepresenting. I'm not sure how that statement could be interpreted except as a reference to Amazon Publishing.
But they are offering a contract with Amazon, the same contract we have with Amazon. Nowhere do they mention Amazon Publishing and as far as I can see, they are offering to become middlemen for the same contract we have already. They are not even offering to design covers, edit, proofread, or anything else for that matter. $1500 is a pittance when most top self publishers are making more than that per month, and surely if it were really from Amazon they would be addressing their emails directly to publishers by name. What they are offering to do is cream off 20% of royalties for themselves and by posting a sample for public opinion, they more or less know which ones will sell and which won't.

As to not talking about it, if they have sent out an unsolicited email, it is not up to them to tell people what they can and can't talk about. If it walks like a con and quacks like a con, it is a con.


If it's a con, it's good to share. If it's legit, Amazon might rip up your invitation at the door. ;-)
M.R. Brazear

Posts: 4,847
Registered: 07/18/13
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 12:24 AM   in response to: tunskit in response to: tunskit
 
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tunskit wrote:
M.R. Brazear wrote:
billhiatt wrote:
Since the offer refers to a publishing contract with Amazon, if the email didn't really come from Amazon, whoever did send it is going to be in big trouble for misrepresenting. I'm not sure how that statement could be interpreted except as a reference to Amazon Publishing.
But they are offering a contract with Amazon, the same contract we have with Amazon. Nowhere do they mention Amazon Publishing and as far as I can see, they are offering to become middlemen for the same contract we have already. They are not even offering to design covers, edit, proofread, or anything else for that matter. $1500 is a pittance when most top self publishers are making more than that per month, and surely if it were really from Amazon they would be addressing their emails directly to publishers by name. What they are offering to do is cream off 20% of royalties for themselves and by posting a sample for public opinion, they more or less know which ones will sell and which won't.

As to not talking about it, if they have sent out an unsolicited email, it is not up to them to tell people what they can and can't talk about. If it walks like a con and quacks like a con, it is a con.

If it's a con, it's good to share. If it's legit, Amazon might rip up your invitation at the door. ;-)

It doesn't seem like a party I want to attend anyway!!
angelakulig

Posts: 1,049
Registered: 04/09/11
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 5:15 AM   in response to: M.R. Brazear in response to: M.R. Brazear
 
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It's from Amazon (store_news@amazon.com) and it brings you to amazon dot com to sign up to receive updates and then you receive another email from Amazon telling you that you signed up for them.. .I am not SO fast to write them off, because let us be honest for a minute. As an indie author almost anything short of my soul would be worth Amazon having an interest in my book and advertising it FOR ME. We all know, selling more of one book means selling more of your other books. Usually hardcore Amazon advertising is reserved for large publishing houses with huge budgets. We get bones tossed to us when we do a good job, but a targeted campaign? When Amazon wants to sell something they do a fantastic job of it.
M.R. Brazear

Posts: 4,847
Registered: 07/18/13
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 5:37 AM   in response to: angelakulig in response to: angelakulig
 
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angelakulig wrote:
It's from Amazon (store_news@amazon.com) and it brings you to amazon dot com to sign up to receive updates and then you receive another email from Amazon telling you that you signed up for them.. .I am not SO fast to write them off, because let us be honest for a minute. As an indie author almost anything short of my soul would be worth Amazon having an interest in my book and advertising it FOR ME. We all know, selling more of one book means selling more of your other books. Usually hardcore Amazon advertising is reserved for large publishing houses with huge budgets. We get bones tossed to us when we do a good job, but a targeted campaign? When Amazon wants to sell something they do a fantastic job of it.
Sorry, Angela, but that is an email address which doesn't bring me anywhere, except to my email to send one. It is certainly not an address I would associate with Amazon; anyone can put the word into an email.
angelakulig

Posts: 1,049
Registered: 04/09/11
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 5:51 AM   in response to: M.R. Brazear in response to: M.R. Brazear
 
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MR--it was already safelisted by me in my email, I approved it previously. Maybe I'll take some screen shots for you.
angelakulig

Posts: 1,049
Registered: 04/09/11
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 5:54 AM   in response to: angelakulig in response to: angelakulig
 
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Here is the web address where it sends you to subscribe hopefully the bots will let it through

http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss/detail/29134490/ref=pe_1148920_123694410_pe_button/1
extradimensions

Posts: 4,140
Registered: 05/19/09
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 6:11 AM   in response to: angelakulig in response to: angelakulig
 
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Clicking Discover More E-Mail Subscriptions, most of these subscriptions are daily or weekly emails of products, but one that isn't can be found under Success Stories.
billhiatt

Posts: 3,503
Registered: 09/15/12
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 7:47 AM   in response to: M.R. Brazear in response to: M.R. Brazear
 
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MR, we should all be alert to the possibility of a con, but I followed Angela's link, and it did take me to a page on Amazon.com to subscribe to emails about Amazon's new publishing program. This is not a con unless the con artist has actually hacked into amazon's website and set up a page there.

Also, with regard to one of your earlier responses, as authors publishing on KDP, we do not have a publishing contract with Amazon. We have a TOS to adhere to, and Amazon gives us a store to sell in--that's it. The arrangement being discussed is very much more than that. It is certainly not just what we already have being brokered by a third party. (We all agree that would be a bad deal.)

Every author is not going to be interested in the deal being offered, but that's different from rejecting it automatically as a con. I can see an author who is selling really well already wanted to stay at 70% royalty and keep all of his or her independence. For an author in such a situation, that would be a smart business decision.

Most of us, however, are not selling as well as we would like. For example, in a good month I may move fifty books, more during promotions. My titles have good editorial and customer reviews (and NOT by friends and relatives, either), and I'd like to think they are worth reading. I know one can't put much stock in opinions of people one knows, but when people I haven't seen in years have gotten in touch to tell me how much they enjoyed one of the books, I have to think that means something. All of that said, the books haven't exactly caught fire. I could just be deceiving myself, but I've always felt being able to market to just the right audience could cause them to catch fire. For me, this kind of offer sounds tempting because of Amazon's ability to market effectively on their own site. Anyway, the relative ease with which the rights revert to me if I don't get the results I expect would reduce any risk involved.

I will certainly heed your warning to make sure it isn't a con. When Amazon is preparing to roll out the program, I'm sure there will be more public announcements. Assuming it is real, though, I'm going to seriously consider it.

(If you think about it, this kind of move is totally consistent with Amazon's strategy up to now. They are trying to increase their market share and their leverage against traditional publishers. KDP gave them some of each, but someone in the organization must have realized that they could do even better if they tried to actively develop new writers. That is an area in which the publishing industry hasn't been doing well in recent years. By making access to "real publishing" (with an advance, etc.) easier, perhaps Amazon hopes to pick up a future Stephen King or J.K. Rowling. If they find a new talent of that magnitude, they can easily hold them with higher royalties. Suppose such a program had existed years ago, and J.K. Rowling had tried it after rejection #4 or so and gotten accepted? Even with higher royalties, A-zon would have made a ton of money, more than enough to justify a program like this. Worst case for authors: Amazon forces trad publishers to offer better terms. I'm trying hard to see the downside--with KU there are certainly arguments. With this I don't see any.)
scribblr

Posts: 3,504
Registered: 05/08/08
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 9:52 AM   in response to: billhiatt in response to: billhiatt
 
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I'm trying hard to see the downside--with KU there are certainly arguments. With this I don't see any.

The rules as written (by the OP) states you can't pull out if the book is even marginally successful and makes at least $5,000 over the five year term or extension term. That seems to be a downside. My first book, published in June 2010, continues to sell well. I would only have to 1785 copies over five years to lose control of that book and not be able to offer it on other sites. I sell that many every year (over 45,000 and counting since 2010) , and I earn 65% plus everywhere. Since Amazon is not doing anything to 'enhance' the book, I fail to see why they should get 50% of sales.
maverickzod

Posts: 295
Registered: 09/23/12
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 10:29 AM   in response to: scribblr in response to: scribblr
 
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I assume Amazon will put a promotional push behind these books like they do the Kindle First books, especially since Amazon is invested in them.

50% of a promoted book could easily make more than 70% of a non-promoted book.

Of course, if your books are already doing well, and on multiple sites, then you probably wouldn't care.

The part I am more curious about is the voting aspect and how many books will be up at a time compared to how many will be selected. And I assume they will be broken up by genres, otherwise the Romance and Mystery books will crush most of the others.

Edited by: maverickzod on Sep 20, 2014 10:29 AM
M.R. Brazear

Posts: 4,847
Registered: 07/18/13
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 20, 2014 10:51 AM   in response to: angelakulig in response to: angelakulig
 
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angelakulig wrote:
Here is the web address where it sends you to subscribe hopefully the bots will let it through

http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss/detail/29134490/ref=pe_1148920_123694410_pe_button/1

Looks genuine, but when I press the link for publishing program, it just takes me to a list of other subscriptions I can choose so this is obviously only for the selected few. I still see little advantage.
Timo Hofstee

Posts: 349
Registered: 03/25/14
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 21, 2014 2:42 AM   in response to: dmd13 in response to: dmd13
 
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Although I haven't received such a mail, I have serious doubts about the authenticity of the email. First of all by the way it is written and the style that is used. It is not all all "Amazon-like". Second, I followed the link mentioned, but that brings you to a publicly available page on Amazon, to subscribe to their various news letters. So what does that prove? I can write a mail with any content and state :"if you want to know more, subscribe to OUR newsletter" and send you to that link.

I would need more info to check if this is genuine or not. If someone has received this email on gmail, do the following: Open the email. Click on the little triangle above the mail, next to the reply arrow. Select "Show original". Copy and paste it here. (you could remove your own email adress from it if you want).

If you have another email client like outlook, you should look for the "header information" and post it here.
extradimensions

Posts: 4,140
Registered: 05/19/09
Re: New KDP Program with guaranteed advance
Posted: Sep 21, 2014 5:50 AM   in response to: Timo Hofstee in response to: Timo Hofstee
 
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While it is a publicly available page, it does show "E-mail Subscriptions > New Publishing Program > Click Subscribe to Receive Updates on Amazon's New Publishing Program," so at least it's a publicly available page to get information about "Amazon's New Publishing Program." The subscription button is for "Click Subscribe to Receive Updates on Amazon's New Publishing Program." When I clicked the link to see all of the subscription options, I didn't find Amazon's New Publishing Program on the list, so while this may be a publicly available page, apparently it's a special subscription. I subscribed, but thus far haven't received any emails (but it says that the frequency is occasional, which may be once every so many months). I don't see that it matters. There is nothing to act on at the moment. If it turns out to be legit, then once it goes live we've already given it a little pre-consideration. If it isn't, it doesn't appear that any harm was done.
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