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Permlink Replies: 11 - Pages: 1 - Last Post: Jul 10, 2012 1:54 AM Last Post By: digilady
digilady

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Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 28, 2012 2:06 PM
 
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Remember I have a graphic at top of every chapter.

I am using Sigil to process the HTML. I have a very small file I'm using for testing: Just 3 chapters, only several paras for chapters.

I thought at first all was well: put the anchor at top of chapter. Then graphic, then h1. Then I let it break it into chapters. When I tried it (hit the TOC it made) it went straight to the h1 :( Deja vu.

So I started experimenting. Everything failed until - NotJohn is going to LOVE this - I added a new CSS class, same as H1 in all but name.

Used the P tag with that class. followed by the img. followed by h1 title close h1, then closed the P. Oh yes, deleted all Word's weird TOC anchors - unused anyway.

It worked - BUT - Sigil, erm, farked my code for the bigtime.

First it says that graphic is in OPF manifest but it's unused. EH?

next error is the graphic is reachable but NOT in the OPF manifest. Is Sigil on drugs or what?

Meanwhile, it's added garbage to my code. "Attribute clear is not declared for element br" and it's added br class =sigilcrap clear="all" and then closes the br.

I can do a global regex and kill all that br clear business - but that graphic? It's there:

p class="susan" > img tag as usual closed p.

Meanwhile it DID generate a TOC but if (evidently) it can't even see the frigging graphic... what good will it do?

Any ideas? Is there a better way than Sigil? It also added several of it's own (unnecessary) CSS. (It is handling my CSS better ever than the mobi process did: I have proper drop caps and small caps now, so I shouldn't bitch TOO much.)

--
http://catledevic.blogspot.com/p/kdp-forum-information.html (This needs a better title. Open to suggestion.)
notjohn

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 28, 2012 5:04 PM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
 
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**=sigilcrap**

Perhaps Sigil is trying to tell you something? You can ask the administrator over on MobileReads forum.

Sigil is not adding garbage; you are feeding it garbage. You might try going back to your Word doc and running it through word2cleanhtml.com to get rid of the crap.
punchygonzales

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 28, 2012 5:46 PM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
 
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The br tag is considered...well, not obsolete, but not proper form anymore either. It’s been deprecated by CSS margin classes more or less. Anyway, even though you can still build epub and mobi files with some br tags, Sigil won’t allow them.

Always put an anchor on some page element whether a paragraph or an image file etc. I think Sigil might ignore an empty paragraph tag if that’s what you’re trying to use. I believe Sigil, like Calibre, uses H1 and H2 as a signal to start a new chapter break unless you tell it not to. Why not just put the anchor on the image? Something like:

<p class="susan" id="chapter1"><img alt="My Photo of Flying Monkeys" src="susanDOTjpg" height="590" width="450" /></p>

If you do that, then I think Sigil might recognize the chapter id instead of automatically choosing H1 or H2. I haven’t used Sigil enough to be sure though. Frankly, I don't like the program. It assumes too much.

booknookbiz

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 28, 2012 5:58 PM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
 
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Digilady:

Sorry--did you expect Sigil to put the graphic in your ncx? When you use "generate" in Sigil, do you understand--no offense--what it's making? That it's making the ncx, and not an html toc?

There's no place for a graphic in an ncx, even if you did it by hand. The ncx isn't an html TOC that's displayed inside an ebook; it's the navigation toc.

Which is why Sigil uses headers (which, for those reading along, are for STRUCTURE, not for DESIGN!!) to create the ncx, so that people don't improperly try to use paragraphs for structural divisions in an ePUB.

An ePUB requires an ncx in order for it to be navigable by ePUB-reading devices. Moreover, many ePUB readers have a 260KB file-size limit, so each chapter should be its own file (obviously, depending upon length of the tome). The ncx has NOTHING to do with an HTML TOC, and it won't contain graphical elements.

HTH.
Hitch
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digilady

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 28, 2012 9:00 PM   in response to: punchygonzales in response to: punchygonzales
 
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When I did =that=, Sigil took the anchor and placed it in every single P throughout the document! So I figured it would generate off the H1's and deleted the anchors - with the resulting mess.

Let me try NJ's forums - though there is VERY little action there at all, from what I saw.
punchygonzales

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 28, 2012 10:06 PM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
 
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Well Hitch uses Sigil every day. Maybe she can tell you what's wrong if you show her some of your files. I seldom use the program, so I won't be much use to you. I'm just here to look pretty. :)
digilady

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:58 AM   in response to: booknookbiz in response to: booknookbiz
 
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erm. NCX? What's that? (Newbie, remember.) I didn't expect graphics: the graphics are all in place, perfectly. It's just that the TOC leads the reader to the header: you miss seeing the graphic :(

I did learn this much: Epub ain't nuthin but a zip file. Change the ending, and you can haul the html out and see what they did lol

I found another app that might work for what I want. Has a steep learning curve, though. I wish I could just do it in HTML and be done :( I'm sure there's a way, I'm just not seeing it.

As for those mobile forums, ask whatever - you getta no responsa. Nada. My question's been up 3 days. First you have to find a 'group' that seems to fit your needs - only a hundred or so in each. Doesn't seem real lively to me.

Check this out: http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/

I downloaded the tryout version (it's fully functional) and it might do what I need it to. (Allows you to break into sections, with different headers on first page!) That might be just the ticket.
notjohn

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 29, 2012 1:50 AM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
 
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You would have posted your question in the Sigil forum. Do understand that most of the contributors are geeks looking for new ways to create beautiful ebooks, or merely entranced with software, hence given to terms like REGEX when they mean search & replace.

I open my html in Sigil and it usually takes no more than half an hour to tweak the result into a good-looking epub. Having clean html is the key.

You should have clean html to upload to the KDP also. It used to be that the conversion was very forgiving; you could feed it (in Sigil's term crap and it would cover your tracks, for example if you forgot to close off a string of italics. That ceased to be true with Look Inside, and Fire seems even less forgiving. So what worked a year ago no longer does.
booknookbiz

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 29, 2012 2:06 AM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
 
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Well...I won't speak to AWP's capabilities. If you're looking for a word-processor-to-make ebooks, try Jutoh.

I'll have to see what you did--some sample code. I'm on MR daily, and wherever your question is, it's not in the Sigil forums. The Sigil users are extremely responsive and answer questions almost as soon as they are posted--so you posted it in the wrong place. I don't see a post from you, or anything on this topic in ePUB or in Sigil--so where did you put it? It's perfectly simple to create an ncx entry (navigable TOC entry) that will take he reader to the top of the "page" (screen) so that they can see your graphics and still have the ncx work properly.

You should read up on the ncx here: http://idpf.org/epub/20/spec/OPF_2.0.1_draft.htm#Section2.4.1 , so that you obtain a better idea of how to use it. You might want to read all of that section (the whole 2.0 spec), and obtain a copy of Liz Castro's ePub guide, so that you obtain the basics.

Sigil is not a word-processing-to-ePUB tool. It's a more sophisticated tool for people experienced in xhtml, xml and CSS, and who have a basic knowledge of ePUBs.

If you will post a text file of your code here, I'll take a look at it. I can't promise I'll fix it, but I'll look.

Hitch
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digilady

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Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 29, 2012 11:37 PM   in response to: booknookbiz in response to: booknookbiz
 
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God BLESS you, hitch. But I dunno how to post code. I have a very simple sample file that is tres short: likely you'd see the booboo in seconds. I'm going to try something, code-posting wise.

Here is the cobbled header:

<p class="susan"><img width=310 height=100
src=heading.jpg><h1>Chapter 1</h1></p>

I'm thinking that maybe because the graphic isn't in quotes, things are puking?

Aware you ain't supposed to nest tags like that. In a previous version (same file,) it all worked - clean and all - but when user clicked TOC link, they went to H1 text (not bloody graphic.)

I use Dreamweaver: it has a remove-word-sht feature (with 3 levels no less.) Gonna take NJ's approach and remove Word's crap, see what happens.
booknookbiz

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Registered: 03/04/10
Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jun 30, 2012 2:25 AM   in response to: digilady in response to: digilady
Correct
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God BLESS you, hitch. But I dunno how to post code. I
have a very simple sample file that is tres short:
likely you'd see the booboo in seconds. I'm going to
try something, code-posting wise.

Here is the cobbled header:

<p class="susan"><img width=310
height=100
src=heading.jpg><h1>Chapter
1</h1></p>

I'm thinking that maybe because the graphic isn't in
quotes, things are puking?

Aware you ain't supposed to nest tags like that. In a
previous version (same file,) it all worked - clean
and all - but when user clicked TOC link, they went
to H1 text (not bloody graphic.)

I use Dreamweaver: it has a remove-word-sht feature
(with 3 levels no less.) Gonna take NJ's approach and
remove Word's crap, see what happens.


Okey-dokey. That, as we say in the shop, ain't evah gonna work. Certainly not in Sigil.

The goal as I understand it, is to have a graphic image (p.s.--yes, [i]please [/i]put your quotes around the image source), and for Sigil, it needs to be thus:

src="../Images/heading.jpg"

Not just the way you have it. Please note that in Sigil, on the left-hand-side, you'll see FOLDERS, that look like the attached screenshot, right?

OK, now, issue #2. You want to have a link that goes to the TOP of the page, but you want the chapter header beneath the graphic. Now, let me say I'm not crazy about what I'm going to suggest (and I'd have issues with it if it was done this way in my shop, for a number of reasons), BUT:

You can put an invisible header above the image, like so:

[/H1]

Put NOTHING between the brackets, which of course, in your code, will be done correctly, angled. Then put your image, thusly:


And then, to make your Chapter heading LOOK like a chapter heading, create a paragraph class you call something like "p.fakechapterheading" (or whatever), and give it the font, size, etc., that is identical to H1, but don't make it a header. Then put beneath the image code:

CHAPTER TITLE HERE[/p]

Again: this is lacking elegance. But it should work. (You are working in codeview, right? Don't use Sigil in Bookview, it will bollix you up, for trying to do this).

It ain't fancy, but it will work. Your ncx will function; the viewers on, say, Nook, which does use the ncx for navigation will go to the TOP of the page, not below the image, and it shouldn't blow up anything. I hope.

For the record, I'm not a fan of using paragraph classes where headings should be used, as [i]headings are structural[/i], not graphical elements. Yes, they can be used graphically, but it's icky coding. (That's geek-speak, and highly-technical terms: icky.) Do not embed header tags inside paragraph tags, please. Bad.

When you create your html TOC, to be used for Amazon, et al, simply link to the chapter FILE, e.g., create an anchor link that goes to, say,

and that will also take the reader to the top of the page easily and simply, and will avoid the problem you've run into with your ncx.

Alrighty then? Remember: ncx is a functional part of an ebook. Unlike the html toc, which can say pretty much anything you want it to, the ncx is structural and functional. I'd highly recommend, for ANYONE who wants to dip a toe into ePUB-making, that you snag and read a copy of Liz Castro's most excellent book, ePUB: Straight to the Point. http://amzn.to/LLzLJw on Kindle (although, I admit, I like my PDF and ePUB copies; I keep one on my iPad that I can refer to, when I have a chinscratch about something and one in my dropbox so I can reach it from any of our computers.)

This should, digilady, get you on the road, I hope. If you have other Sigil questions, I am "more findable" for substantive matters over at MR than I am here, and there really is a world of talent over there. If you have coding issues, you should ask in the ePUB forum first; conversion issues, ask in either ePUB/MOBI forums, depending on the question--but if you have problems with Sigil, ask there--if your question is a coding issue, Ducks or Meme (the mods) might move it to ePUB, but everyone is, really, very helpful. I still have NO idea where on earth your original post is--and honestly, I did look for it.

HTH.
Hitch
We produce ebooks (and occasionally give Sigil mini-seminars!)
Listed as an Amazon Professional Conversion Service: http://bit.ly/uFwMwb
An INScribe Preferred Conversion Partner
http://www.booknook.biz/
Follow me on Twitter: @BookNookBiz
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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digilady

Posts: 264
Registered: 05/07/12
Re: Deja Vu all over again - help with epub?
Posted: Jul 10, 2012 1:54 AM   in response to: booknookbiz in response to: booknookbiz
 
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That is the ticket, I think. Gonna try it asap. Thank you ever so much :)
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