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Jack McEwan

Posts: 28
Registered: 04/03/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 26, 2017 8:24 AM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
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The point is that it "should be." I already know that it is not. I was simply raising the question as to why the policy doesn't allow for it. I am also not the only person who has opened this question for discussion. But, I didn't realize I was exposing myself to several snobs like yourself, who would use my question as an opportunity to look down your nose at someone, and feel that it is your place and authority to repeat Amazon's current policy. You can't change policies and rules without discussion. Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they open.
Jack McEwan

Posts: 28
Registered: 04/03/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 26, 2017 2:06 PM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
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How am I "promoting" my books? I never once mentioned the titles. I simply asked a reasonable question. You didn't like the question so you felt that in your almighty arrogance it was your place to attack. If you don't like the discussion, you can "move on and get over it." If people didn't have questions after writing their books, then this board would not be here and you wouldn't have a place to exercise your sniping comments and bitterness.
beachgardener

Posts: 373
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 26, 2017 2:56 PM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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Jack McEwan wrote:
The point is that it "should be." I already know that it is not. I was simply raising the question as to why the policy doesn't allow for it. I am also not the only person who has opened this question for discussion. But, I didn't realize I was exposing myself to several snobs like yourself, who would use my question as an opportunity to look down your nose at someone, and feel that it is your place and authority to repeat Amazon's current policy. You can't change policies and rules without discussion. Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they open.
Jack McEwan wrote:

Nothing wrong with a good discussion. But you need to stick to real facts. No need for all opinions to agree. I cede you your opinion but you must like wise leave me mine - gracefully if possible. No need for name calling or derision - childish and often the sign of some who feels he is losing the debate. There is no winner and loser in a discussion, and often no meeting of the minds. Especially when the item being discussed is not theirs to decide upon. It is up to Amazon/Kindle, their management and lawyers to decide on policy. You and I may give input, offer preferences, but in the long run, as I said before, it is the business's decision and you and I are not the first to hold this discussion.
Totally agree with your view on parachutes but am of the opinion you are the one having trouble opening yours. Open minds allow for differences of opinions. B

Jack McEwan

Posts: 28
Registered: 04/03/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 27, 2017 6:06 AM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
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You attacked with negative comments right from the beginning. That is not a differing of opinions. The current policy will not change if it is not discussed in a positive light. Your position of "That's the policy so get over it," and accusing me of promoting my books when I clearly did not, does not add anything to the discussion. Tommy London also commented in a very sarcastic tone and went full-out to promote his books on my question. Yet, you have nothing to say about that? Don't be a hypocrite. Try pulling your reserve chute since your main chute failed.
Cynthia E. Hurst

Posts: 1,763
Registered: 02/25/13
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 27, 2017 7:11 AM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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If you can make any sense out of Tommy's posts you are doing better than most of us.
Jack, you keep ignoring the fact that Amazon already asks readers to leave a review of any product IF THEY WISH TO. You can also include a polite request for a review at the end of your book. If you have a FB page or website, you can encourage reviews there. Start a mailing list, and use that for promoting your work. But badgering readers for reviews, especially after a free download, borders on harassment.
I could be wrong, but I think what Beachgardener meant about promoting was that you consider getting reviews as a means of bringing more attention to your work, not that you specifically mentioned any titles. At any rate, Amazon is never going to hand you or any author a list of private e-mail addresses, nor should they.
Mrs Julia Evans

Posts: 654
Registered: 05/22/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 27, 2017 7:24 AM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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Hi Jack,

I've been reading the thread, and I'm not going anywhere near the 'debate' going on with several other posters. Staying well clear, thanks.

What I wanted to throw into the arena, was my answer to one of your earliest questions regarding what the difference is between a vendor contacting a customer for feedback, and an author doing the same.

In my mind, the difference is that the vendor, let's call him AB Electrical, selling someone a new Dyson vacuum cleaner, is just saying, 'What do you think of the product, and was our service good?" There's no emotional connection, it's just business, and the customer knows that, because they read the reviews before they bought the product. (Very rarely on Amazon do you buy something directly from the person who hand-crafted that product himself.)

An author doing the same would be quite an emotional thing. You'd effectively be emailing them to ask them to review your pride and joy, the product of your creativity that you sweated over for years, neglected your family for, and poured your heart and soul into. (I liken it to when your gran knits you a ghastly sweater. When she asks you if you like it, how are you gonna tell her it stinks when she put so much love into it?)

That sort of request would be a whole different level of intrusion, and many readers might feel pressurised into leaving a more favourable review because they didn't want to upset the author. Especially as the author now has their email address and the power to come back and disagree with them if they don't like the review.

I'm afraid that I agree with a previous poster - I think it was Ward, when he said it that would make the reader feel like they had a potential stalker on their hands. Readers would desert Amazon in droves.

Whilst it would be lovely from time to time to be able to get genuine feedback from a stranger, and then be able to go back and ask them questions, I really don't think this would be the way to do it.

Just my thoughts. Best wishes. J


Cynthia - I'm glad you said that about Tommy's posts. I used to spend ages trying to make some sense of them. These days I'd just be happy to have a vacation in his world!

Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 27, 2017 7:40 AM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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Jack McEwan wrote:
... The current policy will not change if it is not discussed in a positive light....

Unfortunately for you, young man, there is no "positive light" you can shine on the notion of exposing customers to stalkers, nutters, and writers desperate for reviews (who foolishly believe good reviews somehow make bad writing better). The policy will not change, no matter how much you whimper and whine about it under the guise of "open discussion," and it will not do so for two reasons : 1) They are not your customers, but Amazon's, and Amazon value them more than you; and 2) because of the majority of people who post on this forum -- quite a few are mature and exhibit common sense and good judgement, but the overwhelming majority are impulsive, immature, foolish, or mental.

Your argument regarding vendors on Amazon is rubbish. If you were actually a vendor and knew the rules under which they operate and how little access they have to customers, you might not fabricate so much misinformation. Do Amazon catch all bad behaviour by vendors? No, obviously not, since no system is foolproof, if only because of customers like yourself...if we accept the (somewhat debatable) veracity of your personal experiences, then you must be held in censure for turning a blind eye to unethical behaviour rather than reporting it, as a decent person would. Vendors can be deleted by a single customer's complaint, and they know it.

Your idea that customers should be compelled to post reviews is utter tosh. Make them pay for a book you gave away for free if they don't post a review? Readers owe you absolutely nothing. Your attitude of "I post reviews for everything, so they should too," reveals an immaturity from which customers should be protected. You want everyone to be like you, but they're not. Underlying your problem is the basic fact that you have not written a book that motivates readers to leave a review; do that and you might actually get a reader response that rises above the 0.9% average, but, even then, it will never be much more -- that's the nature of readers and no amount of harassment will change it.
beachgardener

Posts: 373
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 27, 2017 8:12 AM   in response to: Cynthia E. Hurst in response to: Cynthia E. Hurst
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Cynthia E. Hurst wrote:
If you can make any sense out of Tommy's posts you are doing better than most of us.
Jack, you keep ignoring the fact that Amazon already asks readers to leave a review of any product IF THEY WISH TO. You can also include a polite request for a review at the end of your book. If you have a FB page or website, you can encourage reviews there. Start a mailing list, and use that for promoting your work. But badgering readers for reviews, especially after a free download, borders on harassment.
I could be wrong, but I think what Beachgardener meant about promoting was that you consider getting reviews as a means of bringing more attention to your work, not that you specifically mentioned any titles. At any rate, Amazon is never going to hand you or any author a list of private e-mail addresses, nor should they.

Cynthia, you are exactly right about my meaning of promotion I think we have discussed this subject thoroughly and it is for me time to respectfully leave Jack with his opinion. I will continue to believe there are other and better ways to reach our readers. Enough said. B

Edited by: beachgardener on Aug 27, 2017 8:12 AM
jm14

Posts: 2,617
Registered: 10/06/11
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 27, 2017 4:58 PM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
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Ward Rogers wrote:
Jack McEwan wrote:
... The current policy will not change if it is not discussed in a positive light....

Unfortunately for you, young man, there is no "positive light" you can shine on the notion of exposing customers to stalkers, nutters, and writers desperate for reviews (who foolishly believe good reviews somehow make bad writing better). The policy will not change, no matter how much you whimper and whine about it under the guise of "open discussion," and it will not do so for two reasons : 1) They are not your customers, but Amazon's, and Amazon value them more than you; and 2) because of the majority of people who post on this forum -- quite a few are mature and exhibit common sense and good judgement, but the overwhelming majority are impulsive, immature, foolish, or mental.

Your argument regarding vendors on Amazon is rubbish. If you were actually a vendor and knew the rules under which they operate and how little access they have to customers, you might not fabricate so much misinformation. Do Amazon catch all bad behaviour by vendors? No, obviously not, since no system is foolproof, if only because of customers like yourself...if we accept the (somewhat debatable) veracity of your personal experiences, then you must be held in censure for turning a blind eye to unethical behaviour rather than reporting it, as a decent person would. Vendors can be deleted by a single customer's complaint, and they know it.

Your idea that customers should be compelled to post reviews is utter tosh. Make them pay for a book you gave away for free if they don't post a review? Readers owe you absolutely nothing. Your attitude of "I post reviews for everything, so they should too," reveals an immaturity from which customers should be protected. You want everyone to be like you, but they're not. Underlying your problem is the basic fact that you have not written a book that motivates readers to leave a review; do that and you might actually get a reader response that rises above the 0.9% average, but, even then, it will never be much more -- that's the nature of readers and no amount of harassment will change it.


This sends me to my happy place.
Jack McEwan

Posts: 28
Registered: 04/03/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 28, 2017 6:42 AM   in response to: Mrs Julia Evans in response to: Mrs Julia Evans
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Hi Julia,

Thank you for your response and explaining it politely. My original question was regarding the ability of an author to send a reader a one-time email stating, "Thank you for showing an interest in my book, if you have time please leave a review." The reader then has the option of deleting the email or leaving a review. No different than anyone else doing business on Amazon. As a new author and new to navigating Amazon's immense rules and policies, I thought it was a question worth asking as others on the boards also raised the issue of reviews. I am not afraid of constructive criticism. After all, asking for a review could result in a negative one, for which I am prepared to accept. But, it doesn't encourage people to share ideas, if their questions are going to be attacked and ridiculed by some of the elitist snobs, that unfortunately abound in the book writing business. Some of which act like wine connoisseurs, where they observe someone pouring wine into a glass without first decanting it. Their goal is not to help the new writer with constructive criticism, but to quickly shut down his/her question and end the discussion, as if the quicker and more bluntly they can accomplish that, the more of an expert they appear to everyone else reading these boards.

I will end this verbal tennis match as it has gotten too out of control and is not contributing anything positive to the boards. It was a pleasure discussing this matter with you.
Emily Veinglory

Posts: 3,379
Registered: 04/25/13
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 28, 2017 7:59 AM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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Our deal is already "no different". Marketplace sellers that use their access to solicit reviews are breaking the rules. In fact not just the Amazon rules but the US "CAN SPAM" laws. Whenever I get those emails I report them.
Jack McEwan

Posts: 28
Registered: 04/03/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 29, 2017 8:11 AM   in response to: Emily Veinglory in response to: Emily Veinglory
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I get emails all the time from Amazon asking me to leave a review for a vendor's product.
Jack McEwan

Posts: 28
Registered: 04/03/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 29, 2017 8:41 AM   in response to: Cynthia E. Hurst in response to: Cynthia E. Hurst
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I think some of you are taking my question far out of context. "Badgering?" I would simply like to have the opportunity for Amazon either directly or indirectly to send an email to whoever reads my book and ask if they would like to leave a review. Every seller on Amazon does this when they sell a product to you. The person receiving the email has the option to leave a review or ignore it. Amazon sells everything from sex toys to snow tires (of which I am a purchaser of neither), and that seller has the ability to send you an email either directly or indirectly through Amazon and ask you to rate their product. If someone was interested in a "personal item," they would send you an email and asked you how you enjoyed their product. Even if you ignored the email you wouldn't complain that you got the email. You would simply delete it. But if someone sells you a children's book about sea turtles for example, (which I did not write), you are all passing out on the couch while reaching for the phone to call the etiquette police. Anyone who sells you something on Amazon automatically has a request sent to you for a review of their product. Whether or not you respond to it is up to you. I would think that it would be nice that Amazon would do the same thing for authors. Just my opinion. I thought this would be an interesting topic to talk about, but it generated so much anger and indignation. Such nasty uptight people here.

The next time I have a question about Amazon or anything related to writing, I will just Google it.
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 29, 2017 9:12 AM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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Your continuing obsession over getting customer e-mail addresses (as well as your stated desire to make them pay for free books if they don't post a review) is the best argument anyone could mount against you. Thanks, mate.
Emily Veinglory

Posts: 3,379
Registered: 04/25/13
Re: Feedback for feedback
Posted: Aug 29, 2017 10:02 AM   in response to: Jack McEwan in response to: Jack McEwan
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Yes, Amazon can do it because you gave them permission. Marketplace vendors and authors can't, because you didn't. That CAN SPAM Act says you can only mass mail people who opt in to the mailing. Joining Amazon opts you into their mailing via the TOS, but you can go into your account and opt out.
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