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Thread: June KENP


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Permlink Replies: 54 - Pages: 4 [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 | Next ] - Last Post: Jul 17, 2017 8:53 PM Last Post By: Brad the wronger
acornwriter

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 6:32 PM   in response to: aerki in response to: aerki
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Amazon should come up with a better way of clarifying it. It would be good public relations.
Amis

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 6:38 PM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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acornwriter wrote:
Amazon should come up with a better way of clarifying it. It would be good public relations.

This I agree with.
Brad the wronger

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Registered: 07/13/17
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 6:56 PM   in response to: Jonathan B in response to: Jonathan B
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Those books you bought and read were subjectively found by you. You selected those while shopping by being a discerning reader. You most likely did not select books that were poorly written judging from the Look Inside. Not all of those 6000 books were well written, formatted properly, used decent grammar, punctuation, or good spelling. Or the 3000 new books being published everyday at Amazon. I'm going to guess that easily only the minority of them are ready for publication, and the percentage of junk is getting higher with each passing year and month. Manuscripts that are no more than rough drafts are being published, the writers thinking they're done with the things. Much of it would not get a passing grade in a high school English class.

I don't want to hear any crap about cream rising to the top. That old saying just doesn't work with selling books at Amazon. (Put fresh milk in a bucket and let it sit for a couple of hours, and the cream rises; keeping stirring it and the cream remains mixed in with the milk.) With such an enormous flow of garbage books into sales channels, the quality books never get the chance to separate from the rest. And exactly who decides what constitutes the cream? Authors? Since when have authors become objective about their own writing? And just exactly why are authors afraid of a gatekeeping device? Their books might not make it through? Would that force them to up their game a little?

The gatekeeping device can be as simple as this: if a book does not sell any copies within a certain period of time, let's say six months, then it gets pulled by Amazon. Of course, cheaters will find ways around that by slapping on a new title and author name before republishing, but it might force at least a few to go through the book and fix a few problems. I see absolutely no reason to keep hundreds of thousands of books in sales channels if they have never sold. It's just clutter, and no, the clutter never really sinks and the cream of indie publishers never really comes to the top.

If you all keep writing more and more books, churning them out as quickly as possible, you'll all become successful. I'm giving up. I was going to retire and dedicate more time to writing. Forget it. In my downtime, I'll be sitting on the couch reading books, and leaving brutally honest reviews at Amazon--whether I bought them from Amazon or not. Because I can.
beachgardener

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 7:14 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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Ah Brad, here is where the wronger comes in. It is the readers, not the writers, who winnow out the dross. We may not like it when we end up so much sludge at the bottom of the barrel but it is as honest a system as has been devised to date. Gatekeepers are so often swayed by their personal preferences. With the middleman eliminated the author has a direct contact with his or her fate. Any success I do or don't have is all up to me and what ever talents I may possesses. B
Brad the wronger

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 7:46 PM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
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You don't understand. I'm not implying someone needs to read the book before it can be published at Amazon. I'd like to see something much more objective, related to grammar, punctuation, and spelling, along with proper formatting. A program like Word's review, Grammarly, or Hemingway while not perfect would help weed out the books that have no place in sales channels. But you are right about personal preferences. I prefer books written by reasonably intelligent people who paid attention in school, and care enough about the product they produce to make it as good as possible.

I've made a decision. I'm no longer buying books at Amazon. Instead, I'll get them from the library and leave reviews for them at Amazon. That way I won't waste money on junk and read books written by authors who take their efforts seriously. What makes it ideal is that not only does Amazon allow me to leave my opinion as reviews for products I got elsewhere, they fully support it.
beachgardener

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 7:53 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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Alas, I think those grammar and format programs stifle creativity and take all the joy and literary growth out of a book. Not a problem for you as you will be reading the books written before such creative restraints were imposed. A difference of opinion, the reason there are so many choices on a menu. B
Jonathan B

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 8:03 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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Brad the wronger wrote:
Those books you bought and read were subjectively found by you. You selected those while shopping by being a discerning reader. You most likely did not select books that were poorly written judging from the Look Inside. Not all of those 6000 books were well written, formatted properly, used decent grammar, punctuation, or good spelling. Or the 3000 new books being published everyday at Amazon. I'm going to guess that easily only the minority of them are ready for publication, and the percentage of junk is getting higher with each passing year and month. Manuscripts that are no more than rough drafts are being published, the writers thinking they're done with the things. Much of it would not get a passing grade in a high school English class.

I don't want to hear any crap about cream rising to the top. That old saying just doesn't work with selling books at Amazon. (Put fresh milk in a bucket and let it sit for a couple of hours, and the cream rises; keeping stirring it and the cream remains mixed in with the milk.) With such an enormous flow of garbage books into sales channels, the quality books never get the chance to separate from the rest. And exactly who decides what constitutes the cream? Authors? Since when have authors become objective about their own writing? And just exactly why are authors afraid of a gatekeeping device? Their books might not make it through? Would that force them to up their game a little?

The gatekeeping device can be as simple as this: if a book does not sell any copies within a certain period of time, let's say six months, then it gets pulled by Amazon. Of course, cheaters will find ways around that by slapping on a new title and author name before republishing, but it might force at least a few to go through the book and fix a few problems. I see absolutely no reason to keep hundreds of thousands of books in sales channels if they have never sold. It's just clutter, and no, the clutter never really sinks and the cream of indie publishers never really comes to the top.

If you all keep writing more and more books, churning them out as quickly as possible, you'll all become successful. I'm giving up. I was going to retire and dedicate more time to writing. Forget it. In my downtime, I'll be sitting on the couch reading books, and leaving brutally honest reviews at Amazon--whether I bought them from Amazon or not. Because I can.


As a writer, and with purely selfish motives, I would love for there to be a gatekeeper of sorts. Heck, I would love it if other people just wouldn't submit so many darn books. However, from a philisophical standpoint as well as from a readers' standpoint, I don't want gatekeepers.

Prior to Amazon, I couldn't get past the gatekeepers of fiction. No one wanted to look at my books to consider publishing them. Amazon removed those middlemen, and now I make a very comfortable living writing and publishing. So it is difficult for me to get on any high horse and start crying for gatekeepers.

I personally think your suggestion of six months is probably fair, and if Amazon implemented something like that, I wouldn't complain. On the other hand, I cannot take up the fight to exclude anyone from playing in the sandbox.
Brad the wronger

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 8:10 PM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
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Yes, good grammar and punctuation is so stifling.

The point of language is to convey information and ideas from one person to another. The point of consistent grammar, punctuation, and spelling is to convey those ideas in writing. These aren't the constraints. The constraints come from a writer's inability to tell an interesting story. Restaurants close because cooks don't cook well, or from poor service, or poor value for the money, not because of the menu.
Brad the wronger

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Registered: 07/13/17
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 8:23 PM   in response to: Jonathan B in response to: Jonathan B
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I don't mind if they play in the sandbox. I would appreciate it they didn't take a dump in the sandbox while we're all playing there together. That's the problem I have. I'm tired of sifting through the sand looking for lost coins but finding terds instead.

Do yourself a favor. Go look at Enugu Kibaki's book. These are the books I'd like to see improved. Once he gets the grammar, punctuation, and spelling done right, and the formatting problems taken care of, great! I welcome his book. But I just would like somebody to explain to me why books like this have become so prevalent, and becoming the norm rather than the the odd.
beachgardener

Posts: 288
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 9:18 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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I feel good grammar and punctuation are often a matter of opinion. Ours is a living, evolving language . I don't disagree with your view of the point of language, but I do think some restaurants close because everything on the menu tastes the same. A good menu offers a wide variety of entrée to tempt the palate of a wide clientele. I respect your opinion, but I require you to leave me mine. Enjoy the library. B
novalray

Posts: 284
Registered: 10/31/11
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 10:11 PM   in response to: Jonathan B in response to: Jonathan B
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If it drops below .0040 I'll be going wide with all 32 of my books. The decrease this month from last month was around 3 percent. I had around 4 million page reads so I figure the drop cost me around $500.
Brad the wronger

Posts: 114
Registered: 07/13/17
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 10:17 PM   in response to: beachgardener in response to: beachgardener
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I think you're right. I will enjoy the library, and the wide variety of books they have there.
acornwriter

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 10:19 PM   in response to: Brad the wronger in response to: Brad the wronger
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I get both sides of it. It's like these twitter messages I get from bots. It doesn't make sense. It's probably not written by a real person but a computer is spitting them out. THAT kind of crapola Amazon should keep out. I haven't seen books like that but I've heard authors on this forum discuss them. They're gobbly goop spam. Amazon should take it very seriously when people (or robots) contaminate. I think they're working on it.
acornwriter

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Registered: 07/21/10
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 10:27 PM   in response to: novalray in response to: novalray
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I figure the drop cost me around $500.

Can't blame you for being perturbed. Like I said, we should band together and put out a statement that we believe that .0050 is fair and that Amazon should come as close to that as possible. Every month.

People don't take advantage of us. We LET people take advantage of us. The LEAST we can do is speak up. Big publishing houses sure do.
acornwriter

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Registered: 07/21/10
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 14, 2017 10:46 PM   in response to: novalray in response to: novalray
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Headline in the Washington Post:

Why musicians are so angry at the world’s most popular music streaming service. YouTube is locked in an increasingly bitter battle with music labels over how much it pays to stream their songs — and at stake is not just the finances of the music industry but also the way that millions of people have grown accustomed to listening to music: for free.
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