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Thread: June KENP


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Permlink Replies: 54 - Pages: 4 [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 | Next ] - Last Post: Jul 17, 2017 8:53 PM Last Post By: Brad the wronger
L M Gabriel

Posts: 279
Registered: 08/22/13
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 4:01 AM   in response to: Jonathan B in response to: Jonathan B
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There are some points I agree with here but I don't think the six month bar would be fair to any new author writing in minority genres or specialist non-fiction. Make it a year and combine it with a run through some sort of spelling and grammar app and perhaps you have a point. Don't simply pull books that don't sell, pull seriously ungrammatical and badly spelled books that don't sell.

In my opinion, books don't sell for three main reasons:

1. Being in a genre where it is hard to sell, which includes minority genres and specialist non-fiction as well as oversubscribed genres.

2. The new author is competing with established authors who may well write better but more likely have marketing and SEO skills that they lack, or money to invest in people who do.

3. The Look Inside betrays something written possibly by a non-native speaker or youngster with very poor language skills.

I would add to that the practice some authors adopt of targeting genres their own book does NOT belong to in order to claim Top 100 status (thereby pushing out newer books that DO belong there) and you will see how hard it is to make any sort of dent in the marketplace even with KENP "free" reads.

Just my thoughts. Please don't shoot the messenger. :)
L M Gabriel

Posts: 279
Registered: 08/22/13
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 4:12 AM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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There is an easy answer to that. I got tired of all those junk sites filling up my twitter timeline. I got tired of passengers becoming pbackenders to name one example from bad spinning software. I also got sick of all the vulgar subjects. They change site names frequently and even use a google plus link to entice people in. (Google should stop the abuse of Google Plus but it doesn't care really). Now I mute them. First I check their stream and if they are real people sharing clickbait occasionally, I forgive them. The bots I block. My twitter stream is less annoying now.

Edited by: L M Gabriel on Jul 15, 2017 4:14 AM
aerki

Posts: 358
Registered: 02/25/12
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 10:49 AM   in response to: L M Gabriel in response to: L M Gabriel
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Listen to you guys. You can't make inroads, which is frustrating, so you want to kick other authors out to make it easier for you. Shame on you. You are pathetic.
Amazon is all about competition. If you aren't selling, change tactics and try something different. Work harder, don't try to hobble your competition. What you're describing is essentially pulling a Tonya Harding...and even if you did, your books still wouldn't sell.
In the past there might have been people who didn't want to buy indie books, because of indies having a bad rap, but no more. Look at how many indies are on the top lists and you'll quickly see that it doesn't matter. Get a good cover, good description, WRITE A GOOD BOOK, say 'put me in coach', and get at it.

As for me being a 'Snot', some people just don't like facts. They want to live in their delusional world where they're always the victim. Amazon has done enormously great things for indie authors, and you want to make them out to be a villain. Professionally published authors WANT to be indies, because indies make so much more money. Traditional Publishers are going the way of the dinosaurs, for real, and it's all because of Amazon giving indies this platform.

Our pay has been going up, but there are more people in the game and we don't sell as big a piece of the pie as we once did. Some probably do, and with regards to paid sales that means your money is going up. For KU it means it stays the same. Different beast, and Math is Math. If you can't handle it, stop talking please.

I would also note, that February is the best month for the KU payout PER PAGE because there are less days in the month, therefore less overall pages read. That means each page read is a slightly larger piece of the pie.

And I didn't say English as a first language, I said as a major in college. Those people typically hate math because there's a definitive right answer. In this case, Amazon has been raising our pay, not cutting it.

Truth hurts, and the author biz is a fluctuating one. You have to adapt as you go or you'll be left behind.

I would make an analogy to the stock market, but I know I'll lose almost all of you then. But I will leave you with this....

English teachers, English majors, English professors. They don't write books because they don't know how. They just like to pretend they do. They want to BE the gatekeepers, because they have little or no skill themselves. Writing is an ART. It takes creativity. You can't teach creativity.

So for the people constantly complaining about grammar and spelling, just knock it off. Language is not fixed into a single code. It constantly changes, and we can write whatever way we want so long as it works.

If you believe otherwise, then chew out the LGBT community for their misuse of the word 'gay'. If you watch old movies you'll see it used all the time, and it doesn't mean what it means to people now.

A word change, oh no! What will the English nerds do?

And for the record, it is spelled CAPITOL if you're referring to the seat of government. CAPITAL if you're talking about money.
L M Gabriel

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 11:07 AM   in response to: aerki in response to: aerki
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I said "Don't shoot the messenger" so you took aim straight at me, probably because I don't post here much. What on Earth did I say that made you so angry? Can we not at least TRY to be reasonable and rational? I do not, for the record, want to pull books that don't sell. You obviously did not understand my points unless you were cross about me mentioning authors who deliberately target the wrong sub genre. Was that it? Other than that I only advocated moderating statements made by other people and having you reply to me instead of them puts words in my mouth that I never said. I have no problem with the current market as is except for seriously incorrect genre targetting (such as Amish family stories being sold as lesfic). For the record, I was not even complaining about the money pot.
acornwriter

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 1:37 PM   in response to: aerki in response to: aerki
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Aerki wrote: "... we can write whatever way we want so long as it works."

I agree. It is art. Reading enjoyment varies from person to person. Look at the difference between opera and rap. Creativity is one of THE finest qualities humans posess. Let's give each other plenty of room to be creative, in our own way, including following traditional writing methods. Correct spelling, grammar, etc. There's plenty of opportunity to be creative even within those confines. It isn't easy and it's a lot like making "beautiful music."
Jonathan B

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Registered: 10/23/12
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 2:40 PM   in response to: aerki in response to: aerki
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aerki wrote:

You know I love you, Aerki, but I believe you are making some false assumptions.

Listen to you guys. You can't make inroads, which is frustrating, so you want to kick other authors out to make it easier for you. Shame on you. You are pathetic.

It is one thing to say that from a selfish perspective, it would be great if there was less competition. However that is a big difference from advocating the removal of books. I don't resent anyone from trying his or her hand. But if Amazon did do something to remove some of the chaff, I wouldn't cry very long.


Our pay has been going up, but there are more people in the game and we don't sell as big a piece of the pie as we once did. Some probably do, and with regards to paid sales that means your money is going up. For KU it means it stays the same. Different beast, and Math is Math. If you can't handle it, stop talking please.

Our pay is not "going up" any more than you can say Ford pays more than Tesla because they have far more employees. If someone asks, "Who pays more, Ford or Tesla?" I doubt many people would assume that person is curious about each company's total salary liability. A person would be asking which company pays it individual employee the most, because that is the relevant figure for people as individuals. We care which company will pay us the most if we work for them.


I would also note, that February is the best month for the KU payout PER PAGE because there are less days in the month, therefore less overall pages read. That means each page read is a slightly larger piece of the pie.

Assuming that because February has fewer days that the pages read will be fewer could be true, but it is not a guarantee. There could be valid reasons why people, in total, read more pages per day in February than, say September, which could result in more pages read for the month in February.


English teachers, English majors, English professors. They don't write books because they don't know how. They just like to pretend they do. They want to BE the gatekeepers, because they have little or no skill themselves. Writing is an ART. It takes creativity. You can't teach creativity.

I know quite a few English majors who are very successful writers. If I had to make a bet on it, I'd bet on English majors being among the highest percentage of other educational demographics who are successful writers. I'd hazard a guess that could be because not only are English majors taught to write, I'm betting that many creative people who crave to write are drawn to English in school vice, say, Accouting or Chemistry.


So for the people constantly complaining about grammar and spelling, just knock it off. Language is not fixed into a single code. It constantly changes, and we can write whatever way we want so long as it works.

True, but people who play fast and loose with grammar need to be outstanding writers to get away with it, in my opinion. So-so writers who follow proper grammar and structure will generally be more successful than so-so writers who break the rules of writing. That's my opinion, not a fact to which I can point.
writerbn

Posts: 4,771
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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 3:38 PM   in response to: aerki in response to: aerki
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aerki wrote:
Our pay has been going up, but there are more people in the game and we don't sell as big a piece of the pie as we once did. Some probably do, and with regards to paid sales that means your money is going up. For KU it means it stays the same. Different beast, and Math is Math. If you can't handle it, stop talking please.
I know you've been extremely successful with Kay Yu, writing serials (or episodic fiction--i don't recall which), so I understand your compulsion to defend the system. However, no matter how you spin it, nothing can change the facts: the rate per KENP was around $.0060 when the program started, and it's around $0.0040 now. Unless you're living in an alternate universe, that's not an increase.

Market share has nothing to do with it. If you think the payout bears a direct relationship to the number of sub*scribers in Kay Yu, think again. The Zon deliberately adds money to the pot each month, without disclosing the amount. My guess is that they do this to manipulate the rate and find the lowest amount they can pay out, without a mass exodus of top authors from the program.

I would also note, that February is the best month for the KU payout PER PAGE because there are less days in the month, therefore less overall pages read. That means each page read is a slightly larger piece of the pie.
By your perverted logic, let's hope the rate drops to $0.0010 per KENP, so you can make even more money.

English teachers, English majors, English professors. They don't write books because they don't know how. They just like to pretend they do. They want to BE the gatekeepers, because they have little or no skill themselves. Writing is an ART. It takes creativity. You can't teach creativity.
I don't really care about gatekeepers. If I did, I'd have stuck with traditional publishing. Nonetheless, I know several English majors who are excellent writers. I'm not one--I have a PhD in a field of science that requires, among other disciplines, a rigorous grounding in math. But again, none of this has any bearing on the KENP rate decline.
spectrumpressbo...

Posts: 281
Registered: 04/04/10
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 8:21 PM   in response to: aerki in response to: aerki
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And for the record, it is spelled CAPITOL if you're referring to the seat of government. CAPITAL if you're talking >about money

I was hoping someone else would do this but apparently it has not happened. CAPITOL refers to a building. CAPITAL refers to either a seat of government or to financial assets.
Joseph M Erhardt

Posts: 4,131
Registered: 12/21/15
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 9:25 PM   in response to: spectrumpressbo... in response to: spectrumpressbo...
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spectrumpressbooks wrote:
And for the record, it is spelled CAPITOL if you're referring to the seat of government. CAPITAL if you're talking >about money

I was hoping someone else would do this but apparently it has not happened. CAPITOL refers to a building. CAPITAL refers to either a seat of government or to financial assets.


What a CAPITAL summation! :)
spectrumpressbo...

Posts: 281
Registered: 04/04/10
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 15, 2017 11:27 PM   in response to: Joseph M Erhardt in response to: Joseph M Erhardt
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Joseph M Erhardt wrote:
spectrumpressbooks wrote:
And for the record, it is spelled CAPITOL if you're referring to the seat of government. CAPITAL if you're talking >about money

I was hoping someone else would do this but apparently it has not happened. CAPITOL refers to a building. CAPITAL refers to either a seat of government or to financial assets.

What a CAPITAL summation! :)


The adjective, yes. :)
Brad the wronger

Posts: 114
Registered: 07/13/17
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 16, 2017 9:04 AM   in response to: Jonathan B in response to: Jonathan B
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I personally think your suggestion of six months is probably fair, and if Amazon implemented something like that, I wouldn't complain. On the other hand, I cannot take up the fight to exclude anyone from playing in the sandbox.

Okay, here's another idea. If indie writers don't want to hold themselves--and each other--to a higher level of competence, and cringe at the idea of having their books banned by Amazon, why not have a bargain bin of books? Any book that doesn't have sales in a six month period automatically gets pulled from standard sales channels and goes into a separate area at Amazon reserved for bargains. They could be free (Yes, I know. There are already bazillions of books being offered for free at Amazon.) or listed for 50 cents, no choice by the author but they still get their 30% cut if a book is sold. Once a book hits a benchmark, let's say $100 in sales, it can return to normal sales channels. Amazon could market this bargain area simply as that: "Hey! Look here for bargain books! Only fifty cents for any title, all books, all the time!"

This would pull the clutter out and allow customers to be the gatekeepers. They are the ones not buying the book, and once it proves itself as being junk, it goes into the bargain bin. Would that cut into sales of other books? Maybe. But all the free books and 99c Countdown sales cut into ordinary sales already. Once customers discover most of the books in the discount bin are junk, they'll return to their ordinary shopping habits.

I know what you're thinking. "But Brad! All the author has to do is convince their friend to buy the book just before the six month term expires." But if their friends didn't want to buy their precious POS before, they still won't want to now. It will also force the author into making an effort to sell the thing. To anybody. Anywhere. Or they can drop the price to 99c at the five month mark, once again forcing them into making an effort to care about their book.

Once again, a shopper doesn't have to look very far at Amazon to see rough drafts that have been published. How many ego-driven books are there at Amazon? A hundred thousand? A million? Books written by so-called authors that are writing strictly because they want to be known as a writer, as if that's some sort of indication they are a scholar. They are writing to boost their own ego, not to write stories for readers to enjoy. It's doubtful many of them even care they earn any money. They just want to be known as a writer. What I don't understand is how they can tell their friends about their book, point to it at Amazon, and the book has all the appeal of kitty litter. That's astounding to me. They've put no effort into it, but for some reason, they take pride in it.

I don't recall how your meeting at Amazon turned out in May. I was out of town for a few weeks this spring and didn't visit here for a while. (Then I return, only to discover I fell victim to the glitch that was going around.) Maybe if you still have a contact at Amazon, you might want to mention they are losing customers, simply because we're tired of shopping through pages of crap. People don't need Amazon. We can get books at the library, toothbrushes at Long's, and clothes at the mall. Amazon needs to wake up to the fact that there is nothing in any of our homes that can't be found somewhere else. And indie writers need to wake up to the fact that there are six million books available for purchase, and there is no reason to buy one that hasn't been prepared properly before publication.
openhearted

Posts: 295
Registered: 09/03/12
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 16, 2017 9:11 AM   in response to: Diana Persaud in response to: Diana Persaud
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wow

either way, that's not much

amazon has to look at this

for, like $9. a month, are folks each reading (by robot perhaps) a million books a month?

oh

Steve Smith

Posts: 368
Registered: 03/21/13
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 16, 2017 12:03 PM   in response to: novalray in response to: novalray
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Later ... need to make my response more succinct and less of a rant first.
acornwriter

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Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 16, 2017 2:31 PM   in response to: Steve Smith in response to: Steve Smith
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You make good points about how our books compete with everything else in the world. We also compete with writers who publish through online newspapers and ezines. I read that fodder morning noon and night. And they often have "buy" or "donate" requests and buttons, with statements about supporting investigative journalism. We live in a new world of paradigms that change and break off like ice bergs. Writing for profit? We are gambling on the future. Who knows what will come next. But I will say that the frameworks of commerce that we have now came about by people FIGHTING for fairness. Unions are a good example. That paradigm has shifted too. There will always be people fighting the "good fight," long after we're all dead. Good things come to people who fight for them. The fellow who wrote that blog is doing us a favor. The click farm scam to #1 should be dealt with. Amazon management should put that fire out. Especially in a world of "fake news." It's "fake bestsellers." Sad!

Ah... that felt good. It's triple digit temps here in Nor Cal. Go ahead and rant. :-)
L M Gabriel

Posts: 279
Registered: 08/22/13
Re: June KENP
Posted: Jul 16, 2017 2:55 PM   in response to: acornwriter in response to: acornwriter
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Agreed. I am not convinced that is the only "hack" going on either. Let's hope it is dealt with speedily and effectively.
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