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Thread: Indies have no place to go but down.


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okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 2:21 PM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
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I must tell you Patrick, I just can't make heads or tails out of what you're trying to relay to me. If you are the successful writer you say you are then you must have a mind reading editor re-writing everything. My thoughts are, however, that you're not a writer at all, let alone a successful one. Normally I wouldn't respond but in your case I couldn't help myself. If this is all you have to do with your time, then perhaps you should get a life elsewhere.
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 3:06 PM   in response to: Patrick A. Smith in response to: Patrick A. Smith
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Yes, you are quite right, Patrick. The writers who could not adapt to bookshops vanishing from the landscape moved to the margins, next stop oblivion. Now, the same thing is happening to e-book self-pubbers who cannot adjust to the changing e-publishing world. Adapt or die; the weak shall perish. Those writers who plaintively whine about declining income think it's not about them, but it is.
beachgardener

Posts: 372
Registered: 06/13/11
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 3:47 PM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
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Ward Rogers wrote:
. Those writers who plaintively whine about declining income think it's not about them, but it is.

Well said. I do agree. B
okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 3:49 PM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
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NO! Noooooooooooo!
okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 3:51 PM   in response to: okydok in response to: okydok
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If any one of you had my sales you'd piss your pants.
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 5:29 PM   in response to: okydok in response to: okydok
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okydok wrote:
If any one of you had my sales you'd piss your pants.

An anonymous brag about works unseen is less a claim than a plaintive cry from the margin. While most such comments here tend to be lies, exaggerations or delusions, the real question is: Why would anyone care about your sales or lack of them? Do they affect anyone other than you? Besides, it's difficult to take you seriously. You boast about your greatness, yet you whine about your constant downward spiral. The only thing more tedious than your arrogance and juvenile taunting (as above, or with Patrick, who was actually quite perspicacious) is your constant litany of excuses -- your readers are stupid, your reviews aren't on point, there are too many bad books and writers, Amazon is not supporting you, Amazon is stealing from you, Amazon lost your books, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 5:39 PM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
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Six years ago many of us were selling ten thousand or more books a year. Now we're not.
Patrick A. Smith

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Registered: 04/27/13
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 8:08 PM   in response to: okydok in response to: okydok
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okydok wrote:
I must tell you Patrick, I just can't make heads or tails out of what you're trying to relay to me. If you are the successful writer you say you are then you must have a mind reading editor re-writing everything. My thoughts are, however, that you're not a writer at all, let alone a successful one. Normally I wouldn't respond but in your case I couldn't help myself. If this is all you have to do with your time, then perhaps you should get a life elsewhere.

I forgive you for the false accusations sir or ma'am, but actually I was only trying to encourage you. Ive written for years, but only published for 3 1/2, the first seven months selling next to nothing, since coming here Im not getting rich but im doing very well. My latest book came out 14 days ago and has already sold more than any other of my books has in a whole month. My pages read are 5 times more.

I think I tried to cover too many subjects in my posts, but what I'm trying to relay to you is the fact that there is still mo ney to be made here. By the title of your post I could tell that you were very discouraged and I was only trying to give you some hope. Sorry if I offended you.

You mentioned my editor, that is me. I go over it, then i listen to my chatbot (from zabaware . Com) read it to me, and am able to hear some errors or descrepancies my eyes overlook. Then i run it through MS Word before sending it up.

I will admit that i have ranted in the past about things, but finally decided that here is the best place for me. I tried all the others, SW, b&n, ap ple, etc. And didnt do much of anything. I now earn more on kay u alone than i did on all those places and a few more combined. I liked kay u one better than two, but we have what we have.

have.
okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 9:31 PM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
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You sir are a liar. None of what you said about me is true, as usual. Are you here to be useful or to antagonize those with serious issues. Ever since this board began there has been people like you, that's why it is the useless piece of crap that it is. It once was a place where successful writers came to help the less successful. Not anymore thanks to people like you.
jm14

Posts: 2,617
Registered: 10/06/11
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 9:50 PM   in response to: okydok in response to: okydok
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okydok wrote:
Six years ago many of us were selling ten thousand or more books a year. Now we're not.

So freaking what? Everything changes, nothing lasts. You sure as hell are not the first to flounder in the face of altered circumstances and won't be the last.

Ward Rogers expressed it perfectly. And unarguably. You adapt, or you die.

Your kind come and go, have been for centuries - whining and pissing and moaning and blaming everything and everyone but themselves. Not adapting. Dying.

While the more nimble, and perceptive, reconform themselves and survive, even thrive.

Your choice, which you appear already to have made.

Tough.

You just happened to have been in the right place at the right time for a while, and mistook that for some special ability you had. Now your little gold rush is over.

It happens.
okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 10:28 PM   in response to: jm14 in response to: jm14
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And you, too, have misunderstood what I said. I was attacked from the first post by the self appointed guardians of this board and it's been unrelenting ever since. Surely, you remember Sarge from years ago, and how he disrupted everything. Many of the good posters left then, including me. So has anything changed. Absolutely not. Well, this time I'm not leaving. I'm going to fight for good people to return. If that means you people get roughed up a bit, so be it. Many would kill for my success, but it just so happens that I think I deserve more. I don't think Amazon is treating me fairly. But that's me. I never settle for less than I feel I deserve. And no, I'm not fading away. Actually, I doing quite well.
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 28, 2017 10:58 PM   in response to: okydok in response to: okydok
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okydok wrote:
You sir are a liar. None of what you said about me is true, as usual. Are you here to be useful or to antagonize those with serious issues. Ever since this board began there has been people like you, that's why it is the useless piece of crap that it is. It once was a place where successful writers came to help the less successful. Not anymore thanks to people like you.


Lying about what, chum? That you've made a lot of anonymous brags? That your works are unseen? That you've made juvenile ("If any of you had my sales, you'd piss your pants") taunts? That you claim great sales while bemoaning falling revenue? That you've blamed your declining situation on reviewers, customers, non-customers, other writers and Amazon? If we can't believe your own posts, what in the world can we believe?

Those who ask for help get help from the kind souls who inhabit the forum, whether they deserve it or not, whether their question has been asked once or a million times, whether the question is brilliant or river-rock stupid. Exactly what "serious issue" did you need help with? From the very first, everyone knew what your complaint was ... except, of course, they didn't because they didn't nod in agreement. Well, that's just how life goes. Not everyone you meet is going to be as bloody brilliant as you.

As to forum, it's for the successful, the ones working to be successful, and the ones who probably never will be. Expertise in formatting doesn't always mean skill in writing, but they have good tips to offer. Same for a great writer who couldn't sell air conditioners on the equator. I have picked up some excellent marketing tips from writers whose book covers were apparently created by colour-blind monkeys and whose books were typed while wearing boxing mitts. Most, like you (and me) have learned to post from behind a veil, but most of us are wise enough not to be boorish braggarts or to use that anonymity to taunt or tell others to get a life.

Cheers!

okydok

Posts: 328
Registered: 03/12/12
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 29, 2017 12:55 AM   in response to: Ward Rogers in response to: Ward Rogers
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So how successful are you? What gives you the right to taunt every person that comes along? Does it make you feel successful to treat everyone like they're a newbee? You won't get by with that from me, so go pick on someone who will be driven away by your crap.
Ed Augusts

Posts: 469
Registered: 01/27/13
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 29, 2017 2:04 AM   in response to: Christina in response to: Christina
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I want to get back for a moment to the original poster, Christina. You've written huge essays here bemoaning Amazon and KDP, KU, et al. But we hear, again and again, about your 60 page novella. So your complaint is really that you're not making nearly as much as you should with your novella.

Surely the answer to your unhappy situation is to use your keen writing ability -- perhaps 5,000 words in just this thread -- and write another novella. And then another. And perhaps collect the three together and, once it's 180 pages in length, offer it for $2.99. Buyers will very likely rather pay that price for a book of erotica than for one novella.

It's not a matter of a cup of designer coffee costing $3.00 at all. It's that perhaps you could be more generous with your prospective readers by giving them more variety and larger portions.

My 420 page ebook sells better than my 3 much shorter ebooks added all together. Good Luck with success through continued writing!
Ward Rogers

Posts: 1,308
Registered: 12/02/16
Re: Indies have no place to go but down.
Posted: Jul 29, 2017 6:23 AM   in response to: okydok in response to: okydok
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okydok wrote:
So how successful are you? What gives you the right to taunt every person that comes along? Does it make you feel successful to treat everyone like they're a newbee? You won't get by with that from me, so go pick on someone who will be driven away by your crap.

  • I've made no hollow brags about success (either to pee from knowing or to kill for), so I've nothing to prove.
  • Facts taken from your posts aren't taunts but echoes of your own voice.
  • Obviously you're not a newbie, but equally obviously you're in a self-confessed downward spiral and seeking reasons for it that don't revolve around you or your books.
  • No one is picking on you, but the nature of any forum is that not everyone will agree with you; it's foolish to expect people to do so.
  • No need to leave the forum if you don't want to and no one is asking you to; if being a prickly braggart so full of yourself that everything is about you ... well, you have yourself a jolly old time, mate.
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